The Must Have Pandemic Kit with Dr. Robert Rountree of THORNE®
By now all of us have grown a little weary of masks in the summer heat, lack of human contact and interaction, and the conflicting reports of just what we should or shouldn’t be doing in order to protect ourselves from Covid-19. This battle seems to rage on forever with little information as to exactly how long we need to continue adhering to these precautions. Of course it’s important to do the best you can to protect yourself and others. Washing your hands and social distancing are practical ways to help decrease the inherent risk, but there are easy steps we can take to help our bodies win this fight.
Meet Dr. Rountree:
On this week’s episode we welcome back Dr. Robert Rountree to talk about his favorite supplements that EVERYONE should be taking to help combat illness. Dr. Rountree is a practicing physician out of Boulder, CO and is Chief Medical Officer for THORNE® and he breaks down the essential vitamins and nutrients he takes on a daily basis, gives suggestions for dosing, and even throws in a couple extra products that might not be on your radar.
Some Points We Discuss:
What are high inflammatory factors and how does that relate to one’s ability to fight viruses? (7:30)
What should we have in our toolbox of nutraceuticals to help us fight off viruses? (11:38)
Proper dosing for both prevention and if you feel unwell using the toolkit (12:00)
Some Key Takeaways From This Episode:
If you have a high baseline level of inflammation, you are setting yourself up for a compromised immune system. (6:45)
Don’t be unprepared. Get your toolkit now because once you start feeling sick, you need to hit it hard immediately. (10:00)
Supplementation starts with the alphabet. A, B, C, D, NAC, Quercetin, and Zinc. (11:35)
Products + Resources:
Get Social with Dr. Rountree:
Website: thorne.com
CLICK HERE FOR THE FULL SHOW TRANSCRIPT
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Hey everyone, and welcome back to The Holistic Navigator Podcast where we believe in the body's capacity for self healing if given the proper nutrients and care. My name is Brian Strickland. I'm the producer of the show and I'm joined in the studio as always by our host Ed Jones. Sadly [00:01:00] the coronavirus in quarantine precautions are still lingering around today and many are looking for natural ways to help guard themselves against infection. On today's episode we're speaking with Dr. Robert Rountree once again to talk about some of his favorite nutrients that should be in everyone's arsenal. We've got a lot to cover on today's episode so I'm going to go ahead and throw it over to our host, Mr. Ed Jones.
Ed Jones: Thank you Brian for that introduction of today's show at The Holistic Navigator. I am so thrilled to have one of our previous physicians Dr. Robert Rountree that has been on The Holistic Navigator. We had a wonderful conversation about methylation several months ago. I am so impressed with Dr. Rountree because I've talked to him enough to know that he is the real deal. He's so involved in exactly what my belief system is, which is functional medicine. What is that? It is really kind of looking for the interconnectiveness, [00:02:00] the reasons why poor health happens in addressing it from a different perspective. That's radically different than traditional does so we have to keep that in mind, but welcome to The Holistic Navigator Dr. Rountree.
Dr. Rountree: Hi, Ed, and it's great to be here again under somewhat different circumstances.
Ed Jones: Yeah methylation was we weren't quite expecting what we ended up coming around the corner with after the methylation still a valuable piece of information on how to manage MTHFR and all of this folate stuff. So anyone listing please go back and listen to that particular one if you're interested in that. Today you know, we're going to put into the book again a piece of information about covid and Corona that's going to potentially be life-saving because I say this almost in every podcast and I know Brian rolls his eyes every time I do it, but I separate the world into two different classes of people: Learners and non Learners. Because in today's time if you don't have the ability to learn [00:03:00] and I'm not talking about just boxed learning from just a textbook or the standards. You have to step outside the box in this conversation especially. So I had read some incredibly well put together charts and information on a functional medicine approach to covid-19 virus specific nutraceutical and botanical agents. And this was from I don't know if it's from Thorne, but I'm a huge huge follower of Thorne nutraceuticals because they are so top of the game as far as quality, and research ,and data, and I know that I know you also feel that way. So I appreciate Thorne for kind of putting this together. So let's get rolling here, Dr. Rountree. We all kind of I think know that this cytokine storm is the biggest issue because most people won't get that. And of course what that is that the lungs over or over-aggressive, they get damaged, they get filled with fluid and then really bad things [00:04:00] could happen. What can we tell people to ease some of these fears? If they are ready to build a toolbox of nutraceuticals?
Dr. Rountree: Okay. Well, the first question here is why is it that a huge chunk of people that get exposed to this virus don't have problems, right or if they do it is like a cold or flu or something like that. So you know what we see in the news is the tip of the iceberg is the people that got super sick, right? And and the thinking is that what happens in the people who are super sick is that they have an excessive inflammatory response right? We need inflammation. You couldn't live without inflammation, right? Inflammation is all about defense and repair. So if you cut yourself your immune system goes into action. It defends [00:05:00] the body against any bacteria that might be on the surface of the skin, around the cut that could do you harm and then it repairs that injury so defense and repair is a good thing and most of the time for most people it works fine. You know, we're all exposed to potentially dangerous viruses every day of our life. Right. Every time you eat food. Every time you go out into public you're being exposed to potentially dangerous viruses. So why is it that every now and then, you know, somebody has an excessive reaction? And it does appear that certain viruses like this SARS-Covid-2 virus are you know have some special characteristics that make them more likely to induce this in certain people and those certain people, you know are potentially somebody like me who's over 60, right? You know, let's elderly individuals, you know generally [00:06:00] elderly individuals have an immune system that isn't as regulated as younger people. And you know, it's you could say well the immune system is weaker. You know, there's a lot of different ways we could talk about that. But aging is definitely a risk factor for this thing. They call a cytokine storm. What are cytokines? They are just little protein messengers released by the immune system. So when we say cytokine storm, we mean the immune system is having a storm. It's overreacting and it's producing all these messages that are telling other immune cells to get activated. And the million-dollar question is why do some people get it and other people don't? Here's one theory that I think is interesting. What's your baseline level of inflammation?
Ed Jones: Hmm.
Dr. Rountree: If a person has got a baseline level of inflammation that's already high from eating a crappy diet, processed foods, foods [00:07:00] with environmental contaminants, and you know, not organically grown or they're obese, right? Or they've got uncontrolled hypertension or diabetes. Those are all scenarios where the body's got this underlying inflammatory state. And you can measure that. You can measure C-reactive protein, you know, you can look at other immune markers and any family practice can do this. Look at those immune markers and say hey you're already inflamed if the person's are ready inflamed and then they come in contact with this virus their immune system goes haywire.
Ed Jones: Wow, that's you know, that's such valuable information. I do want to say to the listeners because you have a different background in training. I don't want the listeners to think they can just pop into a normal, regular GP and say check my inflammatory factors. They might be able to but they don't they don't have your expertise to evaluate it or even know which test [00:08:00] to get. So there the individual listening needs to kind of step up to the plate and learn more about this testing.
Dr. Rountree: I tell people, you know, you should be in partnership with your doctor. Like you hear about something you read about something go in and say to your doctor. Hey, could you test me for inflammation with the c reactive protein? I think everybody can benefit from that. And if the doctor poo-poos it and says, there's nothing to it, find another doctor.
Ed Jones: Absolutely and I don't know about you I think for me it’s two and above is I start looking at the fact that there's more inflammation, of course 5 and 10 and above it to me is significant. Is that about accurate?
Dr. Rountree: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, especially if you're talking about what's called the highly sensitive CRP, you know, when that actually gets above two or three you start to you know, scratch your head and go what's going on, but certainly the levels you're talking about that mean something significant is happening. So I want to be clear I'm not saying just because you got a high CRP that means you're going to have a cytokine storm. [00:09:00] I'm saying that that's what the thinking is right that we're thinking along these lines that may be having more inflammation to start with already puts you at risk. So this is just a theory about what's going on and we certainly know again that elderly people are at risk probably because their immune system just isn't regulated as well as somebody who's younger.
Ed Jones:: All right. So let's talk about a toolkit. If someone's interested, they don't they're not really sick, which we've I've dealt with probably a thousand plus people over the past month and some of these actually are physicians in my local town who are coming in and saying they know they don't really have the I guess experience or schooling that they need but they trust us because we've been doing this for 41 years. So they're asking the question, “What do I send my father and my grandparents who live out of the city, because I want them to be prepared in case they get sick?” And here's the other tip that I certainly have [00:10:00] learned. I think you would certainly agree with you don't wait until you're a full-fledged sick and then try to run to a store during these times and put together your stuff. It is not going to happen, people. You need to put this tool kit together beforehand because it's still usable stuff for prevention. Not only for if you get it. So let's start I guess winding down into the toolkit.
Dr. Rountree: Okay. So you make a good point which is that and I tell my patients this is you don't want to get you know way out in the middle of the desert and then look at your gas gauge in your car and go, “Hey! It's below empty. Maybe I should think about getting some gas.” Like you want to it with a full tank and you know, we call that field of studying what it takes to get a full tank Nutritional Immunology. Nutritional Immunology is simply the study of what it takes to keep your immune system in tip-top shape, right and we know it starts with foods. I always want to be clear with that, you know eating lots of fresh foods [00:11:00] number one. So people say I can't afford organic or I can't get it. We'll just start by eating fresh foods. If you eat fresh salads and berries and particular berries and then mushrooms, you know shiitake mushroom in particular you can get them at most grocery stores, very good for the immune system. So starting with foods starts with colorful foods, you know, red foods, purple foods, berries, all that stuff, you know, and then the next step up is well, are there any supplements I can take that can kind of really fine tune things? So once you get the diet good then the next step is the alphabet. What what I mean by the alphabet A, B, C, D. ABCD and then zinc and quercetin. So think about you know covering the basics and I could probably put it in there an N for n-acetylcysteine. So let me talk about all those so everybody [00:12:00] started about vitamin D. Right? We don't need to go in a lot of detail. There are some authorities that say, oh there's nothing to it. But as far as I can tell the people that say that haven't been to a Library recently.
Ed Jones: I love it.
Speaker 1: Right because there is so much evidence now that if you go to areas around the world where people have less vitamin D, they seem to have a higher risk of getting viruses and covid in particular. But they’re studies on the flu that show the same thing when people's vitamin D levels are low. They are more prone to getting the flu that are more prone to getting all kinds of upper respiratory tract infections. I think the evidence is very clear. But you do have doctors say well, we need more studies. I'm how many more studies do we need? I know they even did a simple study in Mongolia where they took all these kids who are prone to colds and flus in the winter season gave half of them vitamin D and the other half not and the vitamin D dramatically dropped a number of colds [00:13:00] and flus.
Ed Jones: Wow.
Dr. Rountree: So these kind of at the top of the list but people don't appreciate that vitamin A goes well with vitamin D. So I try to do the two together. Vitamin A is got a bad rap people say oh it could be toxic. Well, that's only if you take massive quantities right? The type of a amount of a is around 10,000 units a day.
Ed Jones: Now this for prevention or if we're feeling ill or prevention?
Dr. Rountree: No, you don't want to wait till your gas tanks empty. Start it. So the same thing with the D. The D is for prevention D is for prevention, A is for prevention. You know, we don't have a lot of evidence that it used her getting sick and you suddenly take some vitamin A it's going to do anything right? It's the whole idea behind the A is that it keeps your immune system in tip-top shape. It primes it so it's ready for anything.
Ed Jones: Beautiful. And on D, [00:14:00] what do you like to see as a blood level?
Dr. Rountree: I like to see it above 15 nanograms.
Ed Jones: I love that and I want to remind listeners that if you go to the website, the Holistic Navigator under products you can go to Direct Labs in order any blood tests including vitamin D. So you can do this in any town in the United States at discounted prices. If you don't have a good functional medicine practitioner, I really recommend that first but if you don't have it go to the Direct Labs under our site.
Dr. Rountree: It's worthwhile to get a blood level because the majority of people can take a thousand units of D which you would think is a lot and still have a low blood level.
Ed Jones: Well mine is fine. I have to do 14,000 a day to be at 52 nanograms. I mean you and I both know there's people who don't have to take anything almost but you know, we have to blood test to know this stuff.
Dr. Rountree: Everybody does something different with vitamin D and their body right? We're all biochemical individuals and I see plenty [00:15:00] of people that need 5,000 units minimum a day just to barely scratch the surface of a normal blood level. Now, I have a lot of doctors and say what's the point, you know, the mainstream doctor friends that say what's the point in measuring the level? You know. I'm go, “Well, you only say that if you've never measured it.”
Ed Jones:: Ha ha ha. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Then they measure it and they go. Wow, I got all these look people who in my practice that are low, right? So they as soon as he start measuring it then they get the idea very quickly.
Ed Jones: So we've covered the A and the D really recommend eventually blood testing if they're not going to get a blood test, but they're wanting to start right now, you're saying 5,000 units.
Dr. Rountree: 5,000 units for most everybody. Okay. All right. Well as you're laying out in the sun for hours a day, but I don't recommend that.
Ed Jones: All right, what's next? Vitamin C on the alphabet?
Dr. Rountree: And C I think is really critical, you know during this time where we all [00:16:00] are at risk of exposure. I think 3,000 milligrams a day, you know. A thousand milligrams three times a day, you know spread out like that is really good. Now but I didn't see his helpful for prevention and for treatment.
Ed Jones: Same dose or different dose?
Dr. Rountree: So you start with that with 3,000 a day, but then if the first sign of sniffles, fever, cough, anything like that, then you basically start taking a thousand every hour or so.
Ed Jones: Wow. Now, is there a certain form that you prefer or any form?
Dr. Rountree: I think plain old ascorbic acid is as good as any. I've had people tell me what it's got to be liposomal. It's like, you know, I'm sorry, I'm old school. I've been prescribing vitamin C when we didn't have that liposomal stuff that you know until recently and we did just fine with you know, plain old ascorbic acid.
Ed Jones: Yeah, I agree with you. My belly doesn't like it too much at higher doses. So the lipo, mixing a lipo with regular seems [00:17:00] to work well for me. And you know, why is lipo better? Well, it seems to be less acidic. So that's probably the reason and it's kind of connected to a fat molecule and I do want to say, you know, we partner our main sponsor is nutritionw.com where we vet every single nutritional product including we have Thorne on there. It's very good pricing and we ship everywhere the United States so nutritionw.com. If you need any of these things and don't have a local vendor that you trust. Okay A,B,C, we've covered it very well.
Dr. Rountree: A,C, D and then B vitamins as we talked about in our previous discussion on methylation seems to be important for keeping the immune system in good shape. Again B vitamins don't treat viral infections. But making sure you got plenty of Bs on board ahead of time, you know, and I like the methyl form the methyl, you know, methylguard something like that. That's got you know, the range of the folate, methylfolate, [00:18:00] methylcobalamin, B12, Riboflavin, B6. So, you know, I think that's that's just a baseline foundation.
Ed Jones: I love that product. And I know we talked about it on the methylation podcast and I recommend it every single day. I've never seen a better put together methylation formula. And again, we don't want to get into methylation right now, but I encourage people to not be doing straight folic acid because if you have this gene, then folic doesn't work well with that and you want folates which come in this Thorne product. So be aware of that. I love that because like you said, it's not a treatment, but it's like building the machine stronger so we can withstand whatever comes our way.
Dr. Rountree: And then another part of that is zinc. I like the zinc picolinate. There are other forms of zinc that are that are good. But picolinate we know is well absorbed. It's easy on the tummy. Most people do fine with 30 milligrams a day. [00:19:00] And that's just general preventive. We know that that zinc is really important for normal immune function. Right and it's very safe to take at a dose of the 30 milligrams a day. Some people may need 60. I usually recommend that they do that with you know, the advice of a nutritionist or doctor if they think they need more but again just for keeping the immune system functioning 30 is fine. And then if the person starts to get a sore throat or upper respiratory symptoms, then I recommend the lozenges which you can get at most any store. You probably have some you know that you recommend the laws and just usually about five milligrams of zinc per lozenge. And you do one every hour and there is published research showing that that zinc that's been released in the saliva is very potent antiviral properties. So you got that 30 milligrams of zinc on board already [00:20:00] and then you add the lozenges if you start to get sick.
Ed Jones: That's lovely. One personal comment. I know that with me if I do think on an empty stomach, I can't get a little nauseous so I have to do that when with food
Dr. Rountree: Yep same here. I do all mine with food. Okay, then. My next favorite supplement is called n-acetylcysteine or NAC. I've been prescribing and n-acetylcysteine for 36 years I think.
Ed Jones: I love it.
Dr. Rountree: Well, we were you know, we're trained on using NAC in the emergency room because its main use in around the country is people that have overdosed on Tylenol. Right. So there's two main uses here one is for people that have, you know got liver toxicity from Tylenol and the other one is for people with with chronic lung disease, COPD, you know, emphysema, chronic bronchitis, etcetera. [00:21:00] You can actually use an inhaled form of it also used in people with cystic fibrosis that are prone to getting you know lungs that are clogged up with mucus. So NAC has got its claim to fame is that it's a mucus thinner. And it's safe enough to be used inhaled. You can actually get it as a nasal spray, you know from compounding pharmacies. But for most people just taking it by mouth around 500 milligrams twice a day is all they need just for general preventive purposes. Now, what does it do? It's in its converted in the body into glutathione. And glutathione is a very potent antioxidant and also an antiviral compound. Now, this is not just speculation. There's some pretty good data giving elderly people in NAC in nursing homes showing that it prevents them from getting [00:22:00] the flu.
Ed Jones:Hmm.
Dr. Rountree: Right a very well done study. I think it's maybe 20 years old now that was done in Europe ,multiple nursing homes. They simply gave people. I think it was 1,200 a day of NAC and they gave it to him throughout the flu season and at the end of the flu season they went back and just did a questionnaire. Okay, how many of you got the flu and they found that people getting NAC did not have nearly as many incidences of the flu. So you would think well, why doesn't every family doctor, every pediatrician in the world recommend this to their elderly patients or maybe all their patients? You know throughout the winter season, it's safe. It's non-toxic. It's inexpensive. I think everybody should do it.
Ed Jones: Of course you asking the question why they don't do it. I hope the public realizes that there's a certain boxed in agenda that [00:23:00] comes with traditional medical training that does not allow them to actually think clearly on these issues and I say constantly I have great respect for anyone in the medical field whose put in the study and the time and the effort to receive degrees in training but fearing greatly as you may agree there in a broken system and that system is not allowing them to be what you are. You have stepped out of that box. You are a courageous at adventurous person to do that because I know you didn't do it without some negative occurrences somewhere in your life through your peers probably, but you've made you've made yourself a legend almost because of all the things and people you've helped. So I love that NAC is still one of my favorites and you know glutathione is so important to detoxify the body and I take it every day myself two pills a day.
Dr. Rountee: Somebody gets starts to get sick again. You want to you can bump that dose up.
Ed Jones: Okay.
Dr. Rountree: You know [00:24:00] somewhere between 3,000 and 5,000 milligrams a day. And then that's what I'd also add the glutathione comes in different forms to sustained release, glutathione, liposome, you know. It kind of depends on what's available to you. But I think you know you would want to ramp up that dose if the person got sick.
Ed Jones: Oh, that's lovely. I have actually not heard that information about dosing with straight glutathione. I know there's some questions about if we just swallow the pill will it be absorbed? I do tend to like the sublingual and the liposomal myself. I will have to say it tastes pretty rotten, but that's okay.
Dr. Rountree: Literally like rotten eggs.
Ed Jones: I know.
Dr. Rountree: That’s sulfur in there.
Ed Jones: What's next?
Dr. Rountree: Another nutrient I love, love, love is quercetin. I've been prescribing quercetin for again almost 40 years, given it to all ages. [00:25:00] I know it's very safe. The main thing I've used it for over the years is for allergies, and we know that it worked because they're very good studies on it showing that it stabilizes mast cells. And what's the big deal with mast cells? Mast cells release histamine. Histamine causes mucus production, swelling, sneezing, you know feeling of lethargy, etc. What is it exactly? It's a yellow pigment that's found in the the skin of fruits and vegetables. So if a person's, you know eating french onion soup, they're getting a lot of quercetin. if they're eating red apples the getting a lot of quercetin, but they're not getting the amount of quercetin that I recommend for you know viral prevention. That's the other discovery is quercetin actually kills viruses.
Ed Jones: You know, I have learned more about quercetin and of course in the past two months that I knew in the previous 40 years and you're so far ahead of the curve because I mean [00:26:00] not that I do what you do, but I do somewhat similar about people ask me all day long for my information and itwas just off my radar, but I'm tell you I will never go without it. Everything from blood pressure management to exactly what you're saying and to prevent a mast cells from actually being activated is far better than trying to take a pharmaceutical that tries to do it in another mechanism of action. That's why there's no side effects from quercetin and there is from the antihistamines that are over the counter. How much again are you taking of that?
Dr. Rountree: About maybe four years ago I talked to Thorne about creating a more absorbable form of it: quercetin phytosome. Now Thorne is known for being one of the first companies to distribute a form of curcumin which is an extract of the herb turmeric as a phytosome. Phytosome [00:27:00] a kind of lecithin. It's a substance that's found in soy oil and sunflower oil etc. And when you mix it with natural compounds like It dramatically enhances absorption. So I suggested to Thorne that they experiment with creating this quercetin phytosome and they paired up with the company out of Italy--Indeena and Indeena was able to make it and they showed that it dramatically increased absorption. So when you take that form of it the quercetin phytosome, which I believe Thorne has it as an exclusive on selling it that the dose you need is 250 milligrams one capsule twice daily.
Ed Jones Wow, and you know, I switched myself to that probably eight weeks ago because I'm so you know that absorption is an issue it we're guessing totally whether me or whoever's taking [00:28:00] it is actually getting the benefit. But when I looked at the research on the Thorne, it was like a no brainer. This is the only one I will take.
Dr. Rountree: Yep. Yeah, it's really pretty dramatic now, you know. We got a lot of allergies on board. They may need to take a little higher dose. They may need two capsules twice a day. So if they've got a baseline of inflammation, then I would start with a higher dose right but there's evidence out there that quercetin and can fight a whole range of viruses.
Ed Jones: Yeah, not just this one. It goes across the board. I mean it's become now an essential part of just maintaining health if you're a supplement person.
Dr. Rountree: Yep again, so now we've got a, b, c, d, q, + z, and N. Right that's you know that to me is my that's my medical bag how basic supplements as a general [00:29:00] rule that I you know, I tell people I mean, I've been saying this for years. This is not new. This is not something I just made up overnight. I didn't pull this out of a magician's hat. I've been working on this particular thing and just kind of holding it down for many years. And now I'm just doubling back and saying Yep. This is the evidence to other things that I recommend. I already mentioned mushrooms, right? So shiitake mushrooms are great to eat, but if you can get It a good mushroom extract, you know, that's a little more concentrated then. What we think these mushrooms do is they kind of trick the immune system into thinking that an infection might be coming along because there's the structures in the surface of the mushroom that look a little bit like yeast, right? They look like yeast that might be bad for you. Right now the immune system is already programmed to look for yeast [00:30:00] and to get activated. There's yeast.
Ed Jones: Well, that's it. That's it. And you know, I've done two podcasts on mushrooms with Jerry Angelina who I really respect. He's such a expert in that field and he's never explained it quite that way. That is very intriguing and thank you for that.
Dr. Rountree: So those structures are you know, the technical term is polysaccharides right. They’re like starches but it starts with a unique molecular structure at three-dimensional molecular structure. And that three-dimensional molecular structure that's found in medicinal mushrooms in particular something that traditional Chinese medicine doc's have known about for 3,000 years, right? They didn't know about the molecular structure, but they knew that medicinal mushrooms were generally good tonics for the body in general and that if they don't even really know there was an immune system, right? But they knew something was going on that made people less [00:31:00] likely to get sick and now we know what that answer is there's that three-dimensional structure. It bonds like a lock and key on the surface of our immune cells. So our immune cells see that molecular structure and they go wow, oh wait a minute. I need to wake up from my slumber and I need to get ready because something might be happening, right? So it puts the immune system on its toes and it doesn’t inflame it.
Ed Jones: Wow. Now, you know, I take them every day preventatively and I certainly with that explanation will continue that for a long time. I do small doses maybe two to three capsules and if I feel something that I'll usually double that to about 6.
Dr. Rountree: Yep good idea. Now interestingly enough, probiotics work in very similar ways, right probiotics are bacteria, you know live bacteria that you're taking in your gut and you know, we tend to think of probiotics like lactobacillus acidophilus, you know, the old [00:32:00] standby all that's going recolonize my gut, right? I take acidophilus. It's going to grow in my gut and it's going to take over. Well, that's not it turns out that's not what probiotics do. What probiotics do is they interact with your immune cells and they actually boost immunity. And you know what people tell me all you don't want to be boosting your immunity, you know that can create autoimmune disease. Well, I hate to tell you one of the most potent immune boosters out there is acidophilus. So would you tell people don't eat yogurt because it's going to give you an autoimmune disease?
Ed Jones: No. Dr. Rountree: Absolutely. Would you tell people don't eat sauerkraut right which has probiotics in it, or drink kombucha because it's going to give you an autoimmune disease? No. Well, we've got plenty of studies like when they take kids in nurseries and give them probiotics right during, [00:33:00] you know, during the cold and flu season the kids are less likely to get sick, you know, so you got to like an elementary school, you know or preschool or something like that were kids get you know, they're going to get multiple infections every season every fall season, every winter season.
Ed Jones: So this could be part of the toolbox?
Dr. Rountree Definitely part of the toolbox to add probiotics in. I think just you know, the most important thing about a probiotic is that you know that it's shelf stable because a lot of them will say, oh, we you know, we 've got a hundred billion colony forming units, cfus, per capsule. Yeah. Well that was when you made it in your lab. What about when it gets on the shelf in a person's kitchen?
Ed Jones: Well, and I'm talking to Jack Duffy I think is the name that I tried to remember earlier, you know, I did a stool test that I think Thorne partners with another company on a certain stool test and we're going to do a podcast on that. Extremely valuable again. We don't know what your vitamin D [00:34:00] is without testing you can't look in their body. I can't either but we can do it with blood work. Well, guess what? With this stool analysis this current one is state-of-the-art to me and that will be an upcoming podcast. And so I can't wait for that one too. Now I know is melatonin...
Dr. Rountree Onegevity test?
Ed Jones: Yes. Onegevity. Yes. Thank you for reminding me.
Dr. Rountree: It's an amazing test. The guy that put it together Chris Mason. Is at Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York. And he is one of the top researchers in the gut microbiome in the world. He's worked with NASA, you know, they, you know done gut microbiome analysis of astronauts. They've done microbiome analysis of the subways in New York City, you know, so this guy's a published researcher one of the best in the world and he's he's kind of the engine behind the Onegevity Gut Bio, which I think is by far the most sophisticated gut microbiome analysis [00:35:00] out there.
Ed Jones: I love to love love to hear you say that when I did it which was probably six months ago the and I've done probably 15 stool analysis in my life with multiple companies that one there was not even a second place in all the ones I had done it gave me so much information helped me to fine-tune my system. I look forward to another test, you know in a few more months to see what changes are coming. But thank you for putting that into the conversation now is melatonin part of your toolkit?
Dr. Rountree: Absolutely. So, you know, I've been using high doses of melatonin in my cancer patients for decades and people go, “What are you talking about melatonin is for sleep.” But there were a number of studies in Italy that showed that they took people with advanced cancers, you know solid tumors and gave them twenty to a hundred milligrams of melatonin pretty high dose right. And it wasn't a cure for cancer. I want to be clear about [00:36:00] that. Melatonin is not a cure for cancer. But what it did is it slowed the progression of the disease. It and you know, they didn't know why but over time we found that melatonin is a very powerful antioxidant and it's a very good immune regulator, but melatonin turns out to help prevent cytokine storm and they're published studies on it.
Ed Jones: So are you saying to take a certain amount preventatively and and if we're feeling ill then you do more?
Dr. Rountree: Um, I would say more preventive more preventive. I know there are doctors that are saying to take more. I just don't have any data and I try to be evidence-based in my recommendation. So I can't say I got evidence that taking a you know, huge amount is going to have, you know, immediate antiviral effect. So this is again in my preventive program. So maybe now I got to go back and say A,B,C,D [00:37:00]M, N, Q, Z.
Ed Jones: Ha ha ha ha. Let me ask you how much Melatonin are you doing at night?
Dr. Rountree: Okay, I'll take 20 milligrams.
Ed Jones: Wow. See I can't do that. I experimented with 10 milligrams last month. Some nights were good and others got the little bit more vivid dreams. I felt a slight bit of depression that kind of came on. I am a very sensitive character. So I went back to 5 milligrams. But if I started feeling ill I will be at 10 to 20 just go ahead and jump it up, but the five is more than I've ever taken in my entire 63 years of living and I'm doing very well with it.
Dr. Rountree: There’s huge range of dose responsiveness. Right? Some people take a little bit and tell me they're totally knocked out the next morning and then people like me. I'm a really light sleeper, right? So that's why I can take 20 and you know, I don't really notice much of an effect. I just take it for its overall beneficial properties, you know, 3-5 milligrams is a pretty good dose range for [00:38:00] most people but I do have a handful of people that can't take more in about a milligram and a half it really varies. Yeah, I think it's worthwhile as a preventive.
Ed Jones: And it’s inexpensive and of course it's safe. I mean you get these little nagging effects, but that doesn't mean it's unsafe. You have to tweak it for your own individual needs. Well, that's that is an unbelievable toolkit I love the way you put it together for prevention and or if you're feeling ill and I think this is a super reasonable like you say evidence based protocol that is that is very important today. And I don't care even when we get through this episode. When that will happen, we're always going to have viruses and we're going to have flu and sicknesses, so what it applies to almost everything. In fact, I have a radio show that I do every week in the hospital and the physician who's my partner and I say this the past maybe six weeks to CDC says we have an average of 4 viral infections a year. Well I'm 63 years old. That means I've had you know, 200 plus, [00:39:00] infections.. But I'm sitting here talking that means I lived through 200 of them. We can as you said only the small minority are really super suffering with this coronavirus. Why is that? You explained it. So get, you know instead of wanting a Krispy Kreme Doughnuts like I just saw coming here from lunch, food is so vitally important we can be living on processed crap and expect everybody to be healthy. We have to be sleeping regularly and we have to be eating foods that are maintaining less inflammation like keeping your blood sugar balanced, right healthy fats, and then having this toolkit together for if we feel bad. In fact when this all started, I have 26 employees at my one location and we put together bags of the protocol, sealed them up and we made 26 of these bags because we knew if these if one of my employees said, I'm feeling rotten. They had to take that back home with him because they aren't going to make a return trip. And so I encourage everyone who's listening. [00:40:00] You know, look at this protocol put together this packet for you, whether it's from nutritionw.com or from a local place that you trust. And again, I love Thorne. You can trust them in every every single regard. Is there any closing thoughts you would like to leave the listeners with Dr. Rountree?
Dr. Rountree: Well, I think you know, we're all probably dealing with the biggest global challenge of our life. And you know, I would really think there's a lot of research out there. None of the things, I want to be clear, none of the things that I recommended have they actually done a formal study in people with this virus. I want to be really clear. We're not saying, you know that we got the miracle cure anything like that, but everything is evidence-based. So we've got you know research on zinc for viruses, quercetin for viruses, vitamin C for viruses. So if we're saying the only way to move forward is with a vaccine we're missing out on this huge wealth of research that's been done. Let's take advantage [00:41:00] of the research that's been done on these nutrients. Why not? They're safe. They're inexpensive. You know, let's get people on these protocols and then keep track of what's going on and tell their doctors, “This is what I'm doing.”
Ed Jones: Lovely advice and you know, secondly, I think that it also we have the worst pandemic of fear that's ever been in our life and anything that can lessen that because I say on my radio show, calmness is contagious. Well, you know, what being calm is contagious. We need to put together our own personal plans that reduce this massive anxiety that's coming from the social media and the news media. That's more damaging than the virus itself. And I'm seeing people starting to respond to that. I actually did another TV show yesterday with just talking about ashwagandha with that it can be a good adaptogen for stress. So there's so many pieces of this puzzle that we personally can embrace [00:42:00] and because of people like you, the brave ones and the knowledgeable experienced ones. We're getting the word out because they're looking people are looking at even though Google has its censorship crap going on. It's still we had the ability to get through that with the right marketing, and the right publicity, and the desire of the public. So I want to just give you massive accolades. I want to just give you a hand Dr. Rountree for being the brave one to again step up with your knowledge. You know, I love the fact that young people who graduate have such passion, but there's something more than knowledge and that is wisdom. Wisdom comes from experience. You have that wisdom and you have the knowledge. So thank you for being here with me again on The Holistic Navigator. And if there's any I know you've written many books and anything else. Is there any way or anything you want to say about people? Acting you or or your website or anything?
Dr. Rountree: Um, [00:43:00] well, I mean, I'm listed in the phone book of Boulder, Colorado. So that's how that if you want to reach me. That's the best way to do that, I think.
Ed Jones: That's beautiful because people will listen in Boulder, Colorado to thank you my friend. Stay healthy, stay well, and we will talk to you again in a few months and I look forward to every time to speak with you. It's just a blessing and I want to thank everyone for listening again to The Holistic Navigator. We've really filled you in with some vital Information. Please take it to heart. And if you have any questions, please email us at The Holistic Navigator. And again, we're not treating medical conditions. If you have something going on, deal with your physician's work with someone but as Dr. Rountree said if they're not speaking the language that you feel is necessary, find somebody else. You aren't, you know, you hired them. This should be a partnership and don't let them coerce you into a certain box because there are too many valuable things that can save your life, your [00:44:00] health, your family and your loved ones to ignore. So 70% of the world uses botanical medicine, people. It's because it's safe, it's effective and it works if you get the quality product and the quality information to know how to do it properly. So enjoy your day. Enjoy your life. I look forward to everything calming down which will happen. It's just a matter of when not if. Blessings to all this is a Ed at The Holistic Navigator.
Brian Strickland: The information on this podcast in the topics discussed have not been evaluated by the FDA or any one of the medical profession and is not aimed to replace any advice you may receive from your medical practitioner. The Holistic Navigator assumes no responsibility or liability whatsoever on behalf of any purchaser or listener of these materials. The Holistic Navigator is not a doctor or doesn't claim to be please consult your physician before beginning any health regimen.