Why We Should Care About Methylation (in simple terms) with Dr. Robert Rountree of THORNE®
It’s difficult to imagine a process happening a billion times every second. Think about that for just a second. A billion. Every second. Yet that’s exactly what’s happening inside of our bodies every day. Methylation is the process of substances exchanging a methyl group (one carbon atom and 3 hydrogen) and it’s responsible for some of the most basic functions necessary for life to exist. Everything from DNA production, neurotransmitter production, detoxification, and on and on the list goes. The real questions is, why aren’t more people aware of this integral process.
A special thank you to this week’s sponsor Buried Treasure Liquid Nutrients. Their product ACF is one of the BEST immune boosters that we’ve seen. To learn more or purchase, click here.
Meet Dr. Rountree:
We try to answer that and more on this week’s episode with Dr. Rountree. Dr. Rountree is a practicing physician out of Boulder, CO and is Chief Medical Officer for THORNE®. He brings the heat this week and answers all of our questions about why methylation is so vitally important to our well being, genetic mutations that prevent this from happening, supplements, and even a little Tequila talk (mostly from Ed).
Some Topics We Discuss:
What is methylation and what does it mean to us on a practical level? (8:00)
What you should do if you’re not methylating properly? (12:10)
Who should get tested for the genetic variation? (14:19)
What are optimal homocysteine levels? (17:00)
How can you lower homocysteine levels if they are elevated? (23:00)
What is the difference between methyl form B vitamins and folic acid? (29:37)
How can you tell if you’re not methylating properly? (30:40)
Key Takeaways From This Episode:
Methylation really has got its fingers in just about everything you can imagine. (10:00)
Methylation reactions occur about a billion times every second of our life. (11:11)
Between 40%-60% of the population has the MTHFR genetic variation. (13:48)
If you have the genetic variation, you will not be able to process folic acid properly. (30:00)
Products + Resources:
Blood Testing (MTHFR and Homocysteine)
Today’s Sponsor: Buried Treasure Liquid Nutrients
Get Social with Dr. Rountree:
Website: thorne.com
CLICK HERE FOR THE FULL SHOW TRANSCRIPT
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Hey everyone, welcome back to The Holistic Navigator Podcast where we talk about all things holistic health and believe in the body's ability to heal itself if given the proper nutrients and care. For those of you who may happen to be new to the podcast let us begin by saying welcome and thank you so much for listening [00:01:00] today. My name is Brian Strickland. I'm the producer of the show and I'm joined in the studio today as always by our host Ed Jones. Our goal is to educate anyone who may be interested in learning more about natural, holistic healing and today we're talking about the unique subject of methylation. If you're not familiar with methylation or the gene mutation MTHFR, don't worry. We're going to cover pretty much everything you need to know on this week's episode. We have a lot of ground to cover so I'm going to go ahead and throw it over to your host Mr. Ed Jones.
Ed Jones: Thank you so much Brian and again welcome to this wonderful encyclopedia for people who want to be educated. And I say this so constantly, I think probably Brian's getting tired of it actually. I separate the world into two classes of people: Learners and non learners. And I hate to say it after 41 years of dealing with so many people regarding health. The non learners are almost doomed in today's times as they age because [00:02:00] conventional information is not serving us well as far as helping us, to be optimally healthy. One of the most probable common topics that I get questions and also comment about is one of the most vital functions of the body and of course, there's hundreds of vital functions thousands actually, but one that continues to be something of vital importance of in regard to balancing in order to create the kind of health that we all want, which is the health where we’re resilient. We're not sick. Often if we are we get wealth quicker. We don't have chronic anxiety, chronic immune issues chronic this, chronic that. This chronic nature has become the norm in society today. So many people think it's okay to be sick 10 times a year. It's okay to have aches and pains. It's okay to have anxiety and depression. It's not, people. We have brought most of this on ourselves. So what am I going [00:03:00] to talk about with our special guest today is called really methylation would be the big term. I do not think this is going to be a biochemistry lesson. And also I want everyone listening to please learn from this. This is a critical issue for you to manage your health as your years go on. I fly small airplanes. I love being a pilot. And there's a big checklist that I go through each and every single time I fly. It's not just checking the oil and gas. It's checking literally about ten pages of little details in order for me to get from point A to point B safely. Well, I can tell you it's not that much different with our health. At a certain point when we get to a certain age, we have to monitor, be aware, and have people who help us along this path. And one of these things on the checklist, which is like on the first or second page is [00:04:00] this thing called methylation. And so today I'm so excited for the Holistic Navigator to have a very credentialed, experienced and I've heard name for years. Dr. Rountree, welcome to the Holistic Navigator.
Dr. Rountree: It's great to be with you.
Ed Jones: Tell the listeners before we start this really important conversation a little bit about your just your background, where you are, how you got to where you are, and then we'll journey into this important chapter of health.
Dr. Rountree: Well I’m a medical doctor. I went to medical school in Chapel Hill, North Carolina and after that I did Family Medicine Residency in Hershey, Pennsylvania. And after that relocated out to Boulder, Colorado where I’ve pretty much been my entire professional career. My career has been a little bit unique and that I first got interested in medicine by reading books on herbal medicine, you know, so I [00:05:00] kind of went the other way around. I know a lot of doctors that are in practice for years and then suddenly they find out about integrative medicine and get excited about it. For me it was the other way around. I've found out about herbal medicine. I read this book called Herbs the Magic Healers when I was in college, and I thought well, that's what I want to do. So I actually went to medicine just to get the science background on all that and so I've been integrating natural, you know, alternative, complementary approaches from day one in my practice. But at the same time I'll say that I've come to respect the value of having a good scientific approach to a problem, you know to make sure that that if I see a patient who's got a complex disorder going on, you know that I've really thought through things very carefully. You know, and I think that's something you emphasize as well [00:06:00] from hearing your intro is that you really want to work with people that think and you know, I want to be the kind of doctor that thinks.
Ed Jones: I love that. You know that is such a breath of fresh air for especially people around some parts of the country like where we are in the Southeast, You know, you would you'd be swimming upstream. There's no doubt. And in fact, you know, I know that the area's you're in or so much more progressive and there's times I get a little frustrated but you know, I think the less progressive areas need people like myself who may be able to be able to educate and spread the word. In fact two weeks ago had Dr. Engel on who wrote a really fabulous book on traumatic brain injuries and how to recover and he's out in Portland, Oregon. It just seemed like every probably 75% of all of my super credentialed guests are coming from there. Which I don't I [00:07:00] don't blame you because if you were here you'd probably have 20 percent of the people or so interested that you have out there. So I give you such credit for your journey. And you know, I would kind of like you I read so many books on herbal medicine when I was high school and college and I just got where I wanted to be a medical doctor but it wasn't practical for me. I wasn't a good student. I probably couldn't get into school. So I became a policeman. Guess what I did on the police department on the midnight shift? I read books on herbs and vitamins and listened to cassette tapes in order to be better and better. And then I went to work for a health food store on a part-time basis and fell in love with the interaction between people. So I've spent every school you can go to learn nutrition in the early days I went you name it I did it. But I really kind of have a PhD in life experience with 41 years of dealing with you know a hundred thousand people at least. But today I know that [00:08:00] this topic of methylation can be very confusing and let me tell you my kind of low little analogy and then you start on and tell me whether you think this is valid. Methylation has many many nuances now and it has to do with a certain process in the body. And I use the analogy of Disney. If you think about Disney park and you can kind of imagine what happens at night when it closes? Well guess what ? I'm sure there's a massive crew that cleans up the park, throws all the garbage Into certain containers, the containers go to a garbage truck and the garbage trucks take it away. And then the next morning all these different things happen, like other trucks will come in and reload the food and they would you know, make sure all the rides were right and make sure all the fluids were filled. And a certain way that's kind of like methylation because to me when you have your body balanced and your methylating correctly, [00:09:00] you're removing toxins as appropriate rates. You're supplying things, everything from your hormones, to your nutrients, to your brain chemicals, all of these are being given and taken at a very balanced rate. But when this system called methylation is really out of balance, and if you have a gene called MTHFR. About 40% of the people do, you are going to have to learn something in order to manage this. Am I fairly accurate with that general analogy, Dr. Rountree?
Dr. Rountree: Yeah, I think so. I think that certainly the detoxification part of methylation is a really critical role. I would add to that though that these methylation reactions are involved in formation of a lot of beneficial chemicals as well. Then the third thing that methylation [00:10:00] is involved in is proper expression of our genes. So methylation really has got its fingers in just about everything you can imagine you know. And detoxification as you mentioned in formation of neurotransmitters in our body, formation of molecules like CoQ10, and in proper regulation of DNA. So another way to think about methylation is it's like the tags that these fulfillment warehouses have. You got a company like Amazon. How do they figure out where to ship what to who with all that stuff? They got little tags that they put on the bin and the methyl groups are like those tags. So the computer can recognize the tag and say, you know, okay, this is going to Hawaii or you know, this product is going to go to Florida. [00:11:00] So it helps the body figure out, you know, where it's going to send all of these molecules. Now just to give you an idea of how much this is happening methylation reactions occur about a billion times every second of our life.
Ed Jones: Wow! Dr. Rountree: 1 billion methylation reactions every second. And these are carried on by enzymes called transfer ases. So anytime you hear ASE at the end of a of a biochemical molecule, that means it's an enzyme so transferases specifically methyl transferases or just moving these methyl groups around. So the methyl transferases are all over the body including the DNA, the nucleus of the cell, and they are hard at work.
Ed Jones: And I know most people know this but a gene is like a blueprint it kind of isn't it?
Dr. Rountree: Yeah, it's the blueprint for [00:12:00] for making proteins. It's the instruction manual for the little 3D printer inside of your cell that makes proteins.
Ed Jones: Perfect. I love that analogy. And so we're talking about and without any biochemistry going into it, it has to do with carbon and hydrogen and all this this kind of connection. But the thing is there's so many Physicians, Health Care practitioners, holistic healers who are learning as I did about 12 years ago that I think I said this in managing health and in managing disease. I mean there's a psychiatrist that actually works across the street from where we do this podcast and he sends his patients over who have bipolar, schizophrenia, and terrible depression because he learned and he's not integrative. He's really a big prescription writer, but he learned many years ago that when he can balance the methylation of these patients, he gets so much better results. [00:13:00] Because of the fact you just explained. You know, the neurotransmitters can't stay balanced. If you have a really out of whack methylation. And in fact, you know for people who are super sensitive to things like alcohol, and perfumes, and medicines, and fumes, laughing gas at the dentist, all the way down the list my daughter being one we have to talk about this methylation. So is there a test while I know there is so should people get tested first off to see if they MTHFR which is the name of the kind of the thing we're speaking about?
Dr. Rountree: Well, the first thing I recommend so you're talking about it should address is a test for a genetic variation and we think this affects somewhere between 40% and 60% of the population. Right? So, you know the determination of how many people have a genetic variation it's harder than you might think. [00:14:00] Right? I mean how you're going to have to go out and literally survey a hundred percent of people to find out how common something is. So you've got to do some kind of estimates. And again, that's why there's this range. We think it could be up to 60 percent of people actually have a genetic variation. And this genetic variation makes it more difficult for them to convert dietary folic acid into the methylated form of folic acid which is ultimately involved in all these methyltransferase reactions. So should people get this genetic test or not? Well, I certainly recommend the test for anyone that's got an elevated level of a chemical called homocysteine. Now homocysteine, you know is not something that most doctors are checking for unless they're really informed and up on the literature. So this was who was discovered many years ago by Dr. Kilmer McCully who I believe [00:15:00] I was working in a VA Hospital of all places at the time and he found that certain kids who had elevated homocysteine had a rip-roaring increase in their incidence of heart disease. You know, so that started us down this long path of what is it about this chemical homocysteine that's so bad for you? What makes it dangerous for the heart? It turns out it's even more dangerous for the brain. If a person's got elevated homocysteine their risk of stroke and Alzheimer's disease. It turns out that if you don't have enough methyl groups in the body, then you are going to be more likely to have elevated levels of homocysteine. So we use methyl groups to set off a chain of biochemical reactions that will get rid of that homocysteine. So if a person is deficient in folic [00:16:00] acid, then their homocysteine levels will go up. But the methylfolate which is made by an enzyme called MTHFR that methylfolate is even more effective at lowering homocysteine. And some people with a genetic variant don't make enough of the MTHFR and so it's harder for them to get enough folic acid from their diet.
Ed Jones: Wow, that's yeah, that's...
Dr. Rountree: But it's kind of a you know, it's something that we can test again. Anybody can do anybody can get a homocysteine. Any lab will offer it.
Ed Jones: And I know that in my discussions with a lot of people and on one of my podcasts on blood testing where I recommend or educate people to what if they're going to get blood testing what I think they should and again, I always follow up with we're not treating diseases. You know, this is all about managing to be healthy. So if you have a health issue, you know legally talk to you [00:17:00] health professional you trust. But I'm a huge huge promoter of homocysteine because I don't know. I'm what I want you I'm really anxious to hear what you have as your ideal number. I always say anything over eight. We want to make sure we get at least down to eight somewhere between six to eight. What can you tell me? What is best?
Dr. Rountree: Yeah. It depends on who you're talking to really I know Dr. Dale Bredesen, you know who's come up with the Bredesen Protocol for preventing Alzheimer's he thinks you should be less than 6. I'd say well Dale, that's fine. But you know, that's it's pretty tough to get people down that low to be perfectly honest. I have been measuring homocysteine for 15-plus years, you know, I feel lucky if I can get people below eight.
Ed Jones: Yeah, I agree. I've seen so many people who are good at experimenting with the different options nutritionally to do that. And I exactly agree [00:18:00] with you. I do have to ask one single question, but this is more for my probably should make me ask you off the air, but I'm not going to. What do you think and we'll make this real quick. What do you think of people who have too low of homocysteine? Because you know, we've all seen people with 2 and 3's. What is going on?
Dr. Rountree: Yeah. I'm not exactly sure. I've actually had a number of discussions with experts about it and some people say, oh maybe that means you're getting too much folic acid or you're deficient in other ways. I do think it might be a concern because part of the breakdown process of getting rid of that homocysteine involves converting it into some pretty darn beneficial things. The main thing it's that you're making from assisting that's important is a chemical called S-Adenosyl Methionine, or SAM. And SAM is actually sold as a dietary supplement for depression arthritis and liver [00:19:00] disease, you know, so that makes you wonder well if the Sam-E is really important and you don't have the chemical homocysteine that's made into SAM you wonder if there's a problem. My inclination when I see something like that is to do a more extensive panel of homocysteine is there's a couple of labs that will do that. Doctors Data is one. They are one of the first companies to do that and Genova Diagnostics, which is based in North Carolina based in Asheville. They will do a very complete methylation panel that looks at all the other chemicals involved. So what I think when I see a level that low, I think maybe something off. That may be a problem and I know about all the other chemicals involved. So for most people just getting them homocysteine is plenty you don't need to do all those other things [00:20:00] but some people you need to test the s-adenosylmethionine, dimethyl glycine, trimethylglycine, betaine, choline, all the other chemicals involved in the process.
Ed Jones: Wow that's where you know people have to find partners on this journey that are experienced, that can help you. Now I will say on our website the Holistic Navigator if people go to the top and go to products you can scroll down to a lab that we use and that you can order anything very discounted. You can go to Doctors Data. You can get all of these tests there's a draw station in every big town. You'll get a requisition in two hours and you can order this test. Now I will go back to really quickly my experience with you know I would want to know if I have the MTHFR. Because you can have what we call a single hit or double hit. Of course, you know, we'd prefer single or prefer none. Doubles where it's a little bit more. We need to be more aggressive I guess about [00:21:00] looking at the homocysteine levels. And again, I'm all about I think you know eight I'm pretty happy with, you know, seven to eight. And I'm like you. To get to six nutritionally is very difficult.
Dr. Rountree: I mean I myself have that homozygous two hit as you said. I got one gene from both parents from each parent. And that makes it difficult for me to use folic acid. So I have to take a combination of B vitamins, methyl B vitamins, and high doses of trimethylglycine to keep mine below an eight.
Ed Jones: I want to talk about that kind of formula here in a minute. I want to make sure I get this in though for people who want to be tested for MTHFR. I really believe you should be, one. And especially if you're a woman, you've had you have concerns about carrying a baby, or you're going to get pregnant, please like my daughter did she's now has a six month old that is just precious but I [00:22:00] before way before she decided I said you're going to get this checked. So we checked that of course everything else to nutritionally and she does she has a single hit on it. She is a person who's very sensitive to methylation so she can over methylate it times and other times she's under methylating. We don't need to get too much into that, but you don't want to do either of those because you can feel lousy on that. But if you go to Direct Labs, you can order MTHFR. There are people who recommend the 23andMe saliva test. The reason I don't is because I'm a hypochondriac, self-admitted, and when I see all these other genes that say I'm going to have 73 other diseases which is not true. But when you see it on a piece of paper if it bothers you mentally or emotionally about that, I just don't think it's healthy. So I would prefer just to get the MTHFR and a homocysteine test. You can do both of those through the Holistic Navigator under product scroll down to the lab on the page and just order it. So let's just say that, [00:23:00] you know a person figures out they have it either through themselves or a health practitioner and their homocysteine is elevated. What are some of the options to get that down to appropriate levels, Dr. Rountree?
Dr. Rountree: Well, you can first of all, you know, you got to ask the question. Is there something if your homocysteine is up you can say what might be driving that? And you know, the thing to think about is it could be some simple lifestyle issues like drinking too much coffee or alcohol.
Ed Jones: Hmm.
Dr. Rountree: And the other thing that can drive it up that people don't realize is taking niacin if they're taking niacin for the cholesterol, niacin and depletes the body of methyl groups.
Ed Jones. Right. And if yeah, and that's a great point because see sometimes when I think my daughter's over methylating, I will give her a niacin. It stops it immediately. But also and I know you'll could talk endlessly about this some medications are definitely stealing those methyl groups [00:24:00] too. I think metformin and Methotrexate. I mean, there's a big list, proton pump inhibitors. All of these are like drug muggers and they're going in and stealing stuff. And this one of the things they are stealing is these methyl groups. So, you know, just and I guarantee you and you know this to Dr. Rountree not one single patient. And who's given this drugs is ever told anything about this conversation is not even probably on the printouts. And so again being aware super aware is the key to staying healthy and that’s why we're sitting here talking.
Brian Strickland: All right, Ed. Let's take just a brief second. We want to talk about our sponsor for this episode Buried Treasure Liquid Nutrients and one product in particular in thats ACF. We're in the midst of the winter season and what that means lots of germs, lots of people in enclosed spaces, kids and adults alike. So we really love this product because [00:25:00] it is one of the best immune boosters that we've seen thus far.
Ed Jones: You are exactly right Brian. I have been around the industry for 41 years and I will have to say that ACF by Buried Treasure has the most complete formula of combination of natural remedies to optimize our immune system. It's really something that we need to keep on hand and not wait until we're feeling poor to grab it because it could be Saturday night and you need it. So it does taste let's just say the taste is challenging. In fact, you did some videos of some grimacing of people who tried it. I don't care and most don't because what's going to happen is if you're normally would have been down and out for eight days. If you start ACF early it's going to probably cut it to four days.
Brian Strickland: Yeah.
Ed Jones: It does need to be really on hand because you only have a one to two day window of opportunity.
Brian Strickland: It's chock-full of really potent ingredients. It's got Elderberry, echinacea, [00:26:00] Goldenseal, high dose of vitamin C, zinc. I mean the list goes on and on. But we love ACF, it's one of our favorite products around here. So check it out.
Ed Jones: I know that I love Thorne, it is a wonderful company. I've dealt with them now for probably four years and you know it's a professional line generally to practitioners and I just so respect everything they do as far as quality. But the product that I use is called methyl guard. And it has the perfect, to me, perfect amount of everything together in a plus a capsule, which I prefer far more than tablets. Is that one of your favorites also?
Dr. Rountee: Yeah, methyl guard, I will say was one of the first if not the first nutritional supplements on the market that [00:27:00] was specifically designed to lower homocysteine. I mean now every nutritional company has got their own, you know methyl formula etc, but I still think that the Thorne product is the best one out there. It's the one that I use now. It's important to realize that it's not just a matter of giving folic acid. I mean folic acid is helpful right, it is very helpful. But the whole idea with methyl guard is that you've got especially the newer version called methyl guard plus has got all the cofactors that go along with it the activated B6, the activated riboflavin, the methylcobalamin, the trimethylglycine. So when you put all those together, it really makes for a dynamite combination and I've got very very good success lowering [00:28:00] homocysteine with that. Now I just want to say, you know, just to complete that discussion about things that can raise homocysteine. I recently gave a lecture to a group of doctors on the the effects of arsenic in the environment. Arsenic, you know, as you know, one of the most common toxic substances in our environment all over the world. Many people are consuming it without knowing it because it can be in rice and apple juice. It's in baby food. It's everywhere. And arsenic depletes the body of methyl groups.
Ed Jones: Really?
Dr. Rountree: Yeah. I can't depletes the body the way that we get rid of arsenic is by methylating it. So if you're exposed to arsenic on a regular basis, which you may very well not know, then all your methyl groups should just going down the tubes and there are studies done. I think one was in Bangladesh where [00:29:00] they just gave everybody B vitamins and it totally alleviated arsenic toxicity.
Ed Jones: Wow.
Dr. Rountree: So this is not just a you know, a nice Theory Hayes. You take me vitamins. They might be good for you. We've got some very good data that B vitamins and I think especially the methylated B vitamins showing that they can prevent this toxicity.
Ed Jones: I love that and you know the fact that my girlfriend's probably slowly poisoning me with arsenic without me knowing it. I'm going to make sure that I'm covering my bases here.. Now I'm a pretty big proponent of you know, advising people that methylfolate is not folic acid. And we prefer the methyl form of folic. Folic is totally synthetic. The methylfolates are more food derivative. The body sees it differently. And in fact folic acid, if you have a double hit on this gene will be very [00:30:00] very poorly or impossible to process down the pathways biochemically to do the right thing. So, You know about 1983 I think was when folic acid became popular as far as the research for prevention of spina bifida and neural tube defects. And of course, we didn't even know in ‘83 anything about this topic of homocysteine and methylation. But I know it nutritionw.com they basically eliminated everything with folic acid and only have multivitamins and everything else with methylfolate. So I really hope people are looking at their multivitamin and if they just have folic I’d highly prefer something better than that. Now what happens like let's just talk about real quickly Dr Rountree. What are the probable top five or eight symptoms that you see when people are really struggling with methylation whether they know it or not? But what would be the most common reasons that would surface because of this?
Dr. Rountree: Well, I mean the first thing I think about always [00:31:00] is mood disorders.
Ed Jones: Yep.
Dr. Rountree: Yeah, and this can be complicated. We use our methyl groups to basically metabolize neurotransmitters, right. And there's an enzyme that's involved in this. It's called the Catechol. O methyltransferase. Remember I said methyltransferases are involved in moving these methyl groups around. So the catechol o methyl transferase enzyme is involved in and and metabolizing things like adrenaline in our body. Our dopamine or serotonin in our body. So when we don't have enough methyl groups, then we can have very erratic swings in the levels of these neurotransmitters and that can lead to mood swings. So the levels go up and down the moods go up and down. And you know, there's some pretty good data showing that if you've got somebody on an [00:32:00] antidepressant and it's not working and you add a methylated B vitamin then the antidepressant will start working better.
Ed Jones: Yes, I see that so often. And again, you know as we know I'm not being critical the majority of prescribers for that drug or not dealing with the homocysteine and methylation category. But you know again it's where the patient or the client has to step up to the plate and find people and or participate in learning about that. Now to kind of wrap things up a little bit. So anyone interested in optimizing their health, and I don't know, you know or hey have mood disorders or they're taking drugs like birth control pills and that whole list of things that are going to affect this methylation process.
Dr. Rountree: They got headaches or they don't sleep or their brain is or they got brain fog or your hormones are metabolized correctly or they got allergies it, you know, we're you know risk of cancer colon [00:33:00] cancer. It's that list goes on.
Ed Jones: Oh and you know the amount of women that I have seen just the correlation of who like, you know, I've had I've had three miscarriages and the doctor says, you know, there's no reason for it. And when we see that they have a double hit, their homocysteine is at 15. Well there is kind of a reason this is at least partial or who knows how much and it just is so frustrating because you know, these people suffered because of the conventional lack of knowledge. And I just I'm glad that we have people like yourself who are super educated who are you know, telling and educating other healthcare professionals and the public on this topic because it's not that expensive to address it's not that difficult is you know if you want to do it and again I think neuropathy is another.
Dr. Rountree: Especially diabetic neuropathy.
Ed Jones: Autism you know. So insomnia. You know all I'm just a whole host of course again if you [00:34:00] go back to my analogy of Disney there's all kind of reasons why those garbage trucks or the food trucks can't come and go. It could be ice on the roads. It could be a gas shortage it could be the wrong the police didn't show up. Well that's the same with this methylation there are multiple reasons why it could be inhibited and someone has to be able to kind of evaluate those. So for people who want to get tested they can go to The Holistic Navigator and a products go to the lab get it tested or go to your health professional that is open-minded. I think the lab test on the Holistic Navigator is $129 for an MTHFR. Don’t be ripped off by paying three and four and five hundred because some test is doing that. 23andMe is 99 bucks. And of course you're going to get the big package, 23andMe is interesting because when I looked at their literature on this last month, they're discounting the effects of this problem, MTHFR. They're saying well, we're doing it just because it needs to be done. But there's no real solid research. I just [00:35:00] don't get that kind of stuff because it seems to be pretty dang solid these days. So if you do it for 23andMe to just ignore that little Statement that they made in my opinion.
Dr. Rountree: I gave a lecture on this at the Mayo Clinic and I think a lot of doctors, you know, they pooh-poohed at when I first started talking but when I showed in the research, they couldn't deny it.
Ed Jones: I love that. I love it. I love it. I love a smart person like yourself who can present the right kind of education and knowledge and they can't deny it. That's the thing because and I love the fact that you're so balanced between ancestral wisdom, knowledge of herbs and then on the other side, you got the strict textbook biochemistry. And you know, I don't want anybody. I really prefer dealing with people exactly like you. I don't want somebody who just has left side or right side. I want the mixture of all of that. Again, the methyl guard is what I'm doing by Thorne. I do say and you tell me whether you agree with this. I do sometimes like to start [00:36:00] people slow and then work them up and then the second comment I want to make before closing is, all of these people come in like the lady I had yesterday she spent on metanx forever. No one's ever checked homocysteine. I don't like that because the product, who knows if it's working? Who knows if it's working too? Well, who knows whether her anxiety was caused by it rather than helping her? So I was like my suggestion is that and of course legally I'm not telling you what to do. You have to follow your doctor or at least asked them. I said you need we need to check homocysteine. You need to experiment because this could be too much. What is your feelings on this across the board, here's your prescription go get it.
Dr. Rountree: Yeah. Well metanx you're talking about the prescription form form of the methylfolate.
Ed Jones: Yep.
Dr. Rountree: The first thing I'd say about that is it's very expensive for what you get. You know, you're going to pay a premium three or four times as much and you're right. I think [00:37:01] over time I've used not as much folic acid as I used to. No question about it. I've found that if I get the right combination and the mixture of all those cofactors, you know, you can really fine tune it so I agree. I do measure that homocysteine and if the insurance company says, well, you've already measured it once there's no point doing it again. I tell the person you know, I think it's really worth it to pay out of pocket for the homocysteine because this is important information.
Ed Jones: Yeah, so for proper dosing and I'm not sure how much that homocysteine cost on the lab but it's not it's not anything unreasonable. So I am so excited. I'm actually going to all of this gets me excited about retesting my homocysteine making sure it hasn't gone into the double digits. I always say first goal single digits whatever if even 9.9. But anything else [00:38:01] to finish this up Dr. Rountree, that would be helpful to people? I think they've got a good probability that they will feel for the need to get it tested, especially with health issues. And if you're going to get pregnant women, please get it tested before pregnancy. And then people who are just suffering with chronic diseases, or chronic imbalances, chronic poor quality of life, and they've tried everything. I always say this, you know, it's kind of like a big orchestra and there's a thousand instruments playing in and if all of a sudden you walked in and it was really just out of tune music and it just didn’t have rhythm or anything else. You're not going to fix it with one instrument. But talking to the person playing it. You're probably gonna have to deal with many. This is one of those instruments. I mean, we still have to look at other big pieces to this puzzle. But this one cannot be ignored in my opinion if you want optimal health. And again, it's not that expensive [00:39:01] as not that difficult and find a good health practitioner that can help you or learn enough on your own and go get the test done. And there's not a danger to these supplements as far as methylation other than making you feel worse is there, Dr. Rountree?
Dr. Rountree: I don't think so. Now you made a good point earlier, which is that you like to start low go slow. Start low go slow. I've been amazed at how many people that I've put over the years put on B vitamins over the years. It said hey made me feel wired or irritable when I first started it. And I've had some people say okay, then I'm never going to take it and I tell no that's not a good idea. I mean your homocysteine is high, you definitely need this. So what do you do you? You just start at a really low dose and build up the tolerance. The fact that they felt kind of irritable when they first started doing it simply means that changing their biochemistry, [00:40:02] right? That something bad is going on. Now I've heard some doctors say otherwise they say oh that means you shouldn't be taking those B vitamins and I'm like, I don't agree with that at all because I've had enough people that have gotten over that initial hump of feeling a little irritable, you know, they just come back they do half the dose or they do it every other day and then they find that generally within a week or two they can get back up to a full capsule. And if they need even more than that again, they can slowly increase up. So if they feel irritable when they first take it that's not a sign that they're not going to be able to tolerate it. It doesn't mean something wrong is happening. It's a really important concept.
Ed Jones: I love that. I love that. In fact, I and last thing. My daughter, I talked to her yesterday and she has not had any alcohol in a year and a half and she went out the other night and had four ounces of a beer and felt like her whole body [00:41:02] was going to fall apart, her mental state. And I you know, I haven't looked at her homocysteine and methylation because she's still breastfeeding and she's on a very concentrated but very narrow supplement protocol just for ultimate safety and she eats better than anybody I personally know. But you know, that's a sign that her glutathione, her methylation, something that is preventing the detoxing of these aldehyde type of products from alcohol. Wouldn't you think that there's that's indicating something? Tell me.
Dr. Rountree: The aldehyde reductase is an enzyme that breaks down the aldehyde and something has made it really sluggish. So again, you know alcohol, you know, let's face it it when you drink alcohol you produce toxins in your body.
Ed Jones: Don't tell me that. No, I can't. I can't hear that. I love tequila too much.
Dr. Rountree: But there's things you should do and you know, I recommend people take n-acetylcysteine. For example, if [00:42:02] they're going to drink, you know to help raise the glutathione to get rid of all those substances. But you know, it could be something as simple as that. The other thing to consider is making sure she’s got enough choline. It's a supplement that all pregnant women should take and not many people know it but choline is part of this whole methylation cycle. So choline and folic acid kind of balance each other out. I mentioned earlier a chemical called trimethylglycine or betaine. Betaine is the direct byproduct of choline. So when you eat eggs and dairy products, you know organic, of course. When you eat those foods, they have choline in them and your body will convert them into betaine which helps with this whole methylation cycle. And that's particularly important for pregnant women [00:43:03].
Ed Jones: Man. I'm so glad you brought that up because that is I know it to be true and you know, I don't think she's doing that. I will say one other last thing about my own personal journey. I'm almost 63 years old and I remember being 30 and 40 and I could not drink more than one and a half glasses of wine or alcohol without feeling lousy. Not terrible, not sick, but having those sluggishness the for hours the next day, the next morning, didn't sleep. Well. Well I can tell you right now and it wasn't because of my intelligence but whatever supplement protocol I'm on which I take of wider range of if people listen to my Holistic Navigator my personal protocol you can hear all the things that I believe heavily in. I can drink I can drink till I'm unconscious and I never have a hangover. I mean literally whatever I am doing.
Dr. Rountree: Don't try this at home.
Ed Jones: That's right. I’ve only drank a lot twice in the past 18 months. But you know, I mean, you know, 12- 14 tequilas. I would consider a pretty good amount. [00:44:03] I know now the quality of the alcohol is imperative. That's what I tell people on previous podcasts. To me, the only pure alcohol is high priced tequila. Because it's generally not as non-GMO. Agave is where it comes from. It has a low glycemic index. I'd mix it with nothing but fresh limes and water and ice and no carbs with anything else. And of course, I take all my stuff, the NAC and all the nutrients. But again I'm just giving personal testimony. Last thing is I did check the price of homocysteine on our website. It is $69. So it is reasonable for people to check the homocysteine.
Dr. Rountree: Yeah, and you may need to do it yourself. If you're going to a doctor who says you don't need to bother with that, it's meaningless. Then you need to find another doctor or order it yourself.
Ed Jones: Bingo and you know in places like the southeast there's not a lot of options to find the other doctor so it may be necessary to order yourself. And do you do any consultations on Skype [00:45:03] or out of the city yourself?
Dr. Rountree: Well, I'm not taking new clients right now, but I have there's another doctor in my office that does. So if you know people call my office it just listed under Boulder Wellcare in Boulder Colorado then you know the other Dr. Leah Johansson would be happy to do those consults.
Ed Jones: And obviously you're confident with them or they wouldn't be in your office. So that's wonderful.
Dr. Rountree:She's a wonderful doctor.
Ed Jones: Wow. I'm so excited to have that new connection because I've actually not had any other physician or I've even asked that question, but I want people to have access to every single person who's on the cutting edge and you are absolutely Dr. Rountree. I loved loved speaking to you and thank you for taking your time Dr. Rountree to be my guest and we will be talking. I'm sure I'd like to do about three times a year on special subjects if that's possible.
Dr. Rountree: I'd love to.
Ed Jones: Alright, my friend. And to everyone out [00:46:03] there, you know, you know me well enough to know that I really function totally and focused on the power of our bodies that we have already to be healed, stay well, get well, but you have to nourish it. You have to try to work at removing what's harming the body and then you have to build it with a nourishment. And the soil depletion today, the things that we go through. the toxins we're living under are really sabotaging any hope of optimal health unless you step up to the plate and you do some of these reasonable things. Always remember that your body is a reservoir of untapped healing power. Have a beautiful day everyone. Please email us if you have questions and we look forward to the next episode of the Golistic Navigator. Thank you so much.
Brian Strickland: The information on this podcast in the topics discussed have not been evaluated by the FDA or any one of the medical profession and is not aimed to replace any advice you may receive from your medical practitioner. The Holistic Navigator assumes no responsibility or liability whatsoever on behalf of any purchaser or listener of these materials. The Holistic Navigator is not a doctor or doesn't claim to be please consult your physician before beginning any health regimen.