The Vital Role of Nutrition During Traumatic Brain Injury Healing with Dr. Dan Engle
The information provided in this podcast is for general informational purposes only and does not constitute the practice of medicine or other professional health care services, including the giving of medical advice. The content of this podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical recommendation, diagnosis, or treatment. The use of information in this podcast is at one’s own discretion, and is not an endorsement of use given the complexity inherent in these medicines, and the current variable widespread illegality of their usage.
Head and brain injuries are scary.
Anytime we see someone hit their noggin hard is cause for concern. While athletes may be the most susceptible, we’re all just one slip, trip, or stumble away. Conventional wisdom tells us to get examined whenever this occurs, but our overconfidence is often our downfall. There are times when traditional signs of brain injury don’t manifest and we just continue on our merry way. Other times we take the correct precautions and visit a doctor only to be told to go home and “keep an eye on things.” There has to be a better way.
Meet Dr. Engle:
Dr. Dan Engle is a psychiatrist with a clinical practice that combines aspects of regenerative medicine, psychedelic research, integrative spirituality, and peak performance.
His medical degree is from the University of Texas at San Antonio. His psychiatry residency degree is from the University of Colorado in Denver, and his child and adolescent psychiatry fellowship degree is from Oregon Health & Science University.
Dr. Engle is an international consultant to several global healing centers facilitating the use of long-standing indigenous plant medicines for healing and awakening. He is the Founder and Medical Director of Kuya Institute for Transformational Medicine in Austin, Texas; Full Spectrum Medicine, a psychedelic integration and educational platform; and Thank You Life, a non-profit funding stream supporting access to psychedelic therapies.
Dr. Engle is the author of The Concussion Repair Manual: A Practical Guide to Recovering from Traumatic Brain Injuries, as well as his new book, A Dose of Hope: A Story of MDMA-Assisted Psychotherapy.
Connect with Dr. Dan:
Some Topics We Discuss:
What is a traumatic brain injury? (4:15)
How can we address traumatic brain injury through nutrition? (11:45)
What foods should we be consuming to be healing? (16:01)
After cleaning up your diet, what is the next step in recovering from a TBI? (30:30)
Do these same protocols work for children that may have brain development issues? (39:25)
What supplements should we take when recovering from a TBI? (42:47)
Key Takeaways From This Episode:
You can have a concussion without losing consciousness. (5:10)
Avoid fried foods, sugary foods, processed foods and alcohol when recovering. (12:30)
A ketogenic approach is rehabilitative to the nervous system. (16:25)
The two go-to supplements for recovery are fish oil and CBD. (43:05)
Products + Resources:
Thanks to this episode’s sponsor: Buried Treasure
Get Social With Dr. Engle:
CLICK HERE FOR THE FULL SHOW TRANSCRIPT
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Hello everyone and welcome back to the Holistic Navigator podcast where we talk about all things holistic health and believe in the body's ability to heal itself, if given the proper nutrients and care. For those of you who may happen to be new to the show, let me say welcome and thank you so much for listening [00:01:00] today. My name is Brian Strickland. I'm the producer of the show and I'm joined in the studio by our host, Ed Jones. Our goal is simply to educate anyone who may be interested in learning more about natural holistic healing and we're excited to speak today with Dr. Dan Engle about how to address traumatic brain injuries. It's important to recognize the signs when it comes to brain injuries, but they don't always present themselves in an obvious manner. So, Dr. Engle is going to tell us how diet, nutrition, and supplementation all play a part in the prevention and healing and what signs to look for when an injury occurs. So with that being said, let me go ahead and throw it over to the host of our show. Mr. Ed Jones.
Ed Jones: Thank you so much Brian for that introduction. And you know, I've done about 60 of these podcasts now and I think everyone who's been listening understands my passion for the whole part of my life that of the belief of nourishment, nutrition, the body's [00:02:00] miraculous ability to heal itself. And you know every session I go through and talk, I'm always excited but I will tell you that I doubt I've ever been more stoked about speaking to a person than we are going to hear today on concussion repair, traumatic brain injuries from a gentleman who I didn't know about until probably maybe eight nine months ago. And since I have a radar for everything because it is my purpose to help share the valuable information. You know somehow something popped up and I went online and I looked at the YouTube video. I was freaking blown away about the knowledge, experience, and the practical aspect of this gentleman, this physician named Dr. Dan Engle. Welcome, Dr. Engle, to the Holistic Navigator.
Dr. Engle: It's great to be with you Ed. Thanks for having me on.
Ed Jones: Dr. Engle has wonderful credentials. He has [00:03:01] graduated from the University of Texas Health Sciences. He's done residency in adult psychiatry and neurology at Colorado Health Science, research fellow in forensic psychiatry, Fellowship Child and Adolescent Psychiatry, and Medical Board certifications in 2007 and 2017. But you know my first real exposure to you was when I first saw that you had written a book called The Concussion Repair Manual. Well, it wasn't but three minutes later. I put it on my Kindle because it looks so freaking intriguing. Before I had a chance to actually read it. I also of course being the explore that I am and I know you are I went on YouTube and I listened to the called number 11 concussion repair manual with Dr. Dan Engle on the on it podcast and I just was mesmerized because most of the things you speak about I've certainly had my at least my toe in many times my whole leg and as far as the therapies [00:04:01] and all of that. And we're going to talk about one specific part of this which is the nutritional considerations that need to be coming when someone has had a traumatic brain injury. And I would like Dr. Engel for you to kind of define what is a traumatic brain injury so people can know this? You know, this is the kind of things we need to think about if like my child fell and hit her head or is it all the way down the list to PTSD and strokes? Where does this fit in?
Dr. Engle: That's a good question. Let me take them in the reverse order because PTSD is oftentimes what happens when the mind is traumatized versus a TBI, or a concussion, or traumatic brain injuries what happens when the brain and the nervous system is traumatized. So there's oftentimes a huge overlap between the two. And if somebody's experiencing both you can't get full resolution of each of them if you're only treating one of them. So it's helpful [00:05:01] to understand what the ramifications are. And when I was in medical school and training there was a pretty rigid diagnosis of concussion that actually is not accurate now and most of the old-school docs believe that you have to have a loss of consciousness in order to have a concussion and that's not true. So essentially what happens is there's usually an acceleration deceleration injury that doesn't actually have to include any impact externally at all. Like if somebody's in a motor vehicle accident and they get smashed from behind. They don't necessarily have to whack the dashboard or the steering wheel in order to have such an acceleration deceleration force that juggles the brain inside the skull. So when there's the obvious injury and somebody obviously has a loss of consciousness or a change in consciousness, that's [00:06:01] a clear concussion and could be mild, moderate or severe in its traumatic brain injury scale. Concussion tends to equate to mild, mild moderate TBI or traumatic brain injury. And absent of that if somebody has a fall or neurologic injury and they start to have as a result on the cascade of symptoms post-concussive syndrome, then that's a diagnosis in retrospect. Because sometimes people have an injury and they don't necessarily know it because there may not have been that acute, observable outside and external traumatic impact. And post-concussive syndrome those symptoms span the gamut from clear neurologic symptoms, cognitive symptoms, mood symptoms, sleep, social, etc. [00:07:01] And if we just unpack each of those then you get kind of a sense like the classic presentation is somebody with light noise sensitivity, they have a hard time focusing with concentration, memory recall, ability to stay on task, reading can get overwhelming because of the toggling of the eye movements back and forth, being in loud or really stimulating social environments can be overwhelming. Sleep can be disrupted it can either go up or down. And then mood dysregulation or emotional lability or depression or anxiety or any of those things that can change as a result downstream. So you can see like the the symptoms are pretty wide pretty varied and if a person didn't have the recognition that these symptoms were related to a head injury then it could just look like a whole bunch of different things and it can present like a whole bunch of different things.
Ed Jones: [00:08:01] Wow. That is so interesting. I know about 3 years ago, I was doing dips at the gym and the dip bar collapsed and I fell and dislocated both my thumbs and I did hit my head slightly, but there was obviously no diagnosable concussion. But you're saying that even with something like that some of these symptoms could surface?
Dr. Engle Absolutely. Yeah, that's it walking around with post-concussion sequelae or consequences and not knowing it because they may not have had a severe injury or or that like classic and observable smashed.
Ed Jones: So at this point I think people have a really great explanation of especially expanded explanation of traumatic brain injuries that might include things they never considered before and let them know in the future when something happens to them, loved ones, or friends a new course of [00:09:01] maybe considerations about how do we help the body and brain rehabilitate itself? Because and I know really quickly you that you will agree to this the conventional methods are limiting. They're certainly not; they're a very small tool box that's helping people to journey pass this because neuroplasticity, the ability of the brain to repair itself and to actually change is very strong, but we have to nourish it. So again people they accidentally fall off a bike. They go to the emergency room. They're probably going to be sent home with what just a very basic Basic advice of what?
Dr. Engle: Go home. Get some rest. We hope it gets better. That's the standard operating procedure. That was what I was told after my last one that I started having really bad post-concussive syndrome and I was working with the best minds in the I was actually doing my neurology rotation during Medical School.
Ed Jones: Hmm.
Dr. Engle: And that was the summary statement [00:10:01] and it was just frustrating because I had already been at home. I'd already been resting and it wasn't getting any better. So that's essentially why put myself in the laboratory over 20 years and found out things that did work didn't work and sensually put everything that did work into a book.
Ed Jones: I'm so impressed with your book and The Concussion Repair Manual, Dr. Dan Engle. And I'd got it on Kindle. I actually ordered it from Amazon. I got it and one of my staff members wanted to borrow it and it happened that I just had to read it the next day and I didn't have it. So I went ahead and ordered the one on kindle because I couldn't get I couldn't wait to read about it. And I'm telling you I it's going to be the keeper book for me. And of course being in a kind of a system that I have where I talk to many people every day and have a lot of clients who are seeking advice and education, I want to be fully armed. And this was an area that I was so lacking in and I didn't realize I was lacking until I read your book. So I want to encourage everyone listening, you know, this is interesting [00:11:01] reading and you are a great author. So let's talk about the ass. spect of the nutritional nourishment and intervention that you have learned that would be very very important to the help to rehabilitate. Because I know years ago the only other part that I ever ran across with someone is JJ Virgin actually came to my hometown and we partnered on a PBS special and she had that her child I think was in a car wreck and she gave massive omega-3 levels to products to their child and seemingly turned the recovery around because it was doing poorly. But you know that was 10 years ago. You are way past what we knew 10 years ago. So kind of tell people you know, how does this work? And what should they consider if they know they've had some kind of issues?
Dr. Engle: Well, we can take it from a couple of different perspectives. One is diets and nutrition and most of your major foods to focus on [00:12:01] and the other would be supplementation and things that are helpful to take in addition that would just be really hard to get an amount if you're only doing it from food sources. And if we take that from the nutrition aspect, it's helpful to know what foods to eat as well as it's helpful to know what foods and not to eat. So let's start with the second one first. And basically the things you want to stay away from are fried foods, sugary foods, like really sweet or processed foods and alcohol. And that just makes good sense, but it makes even more sense. Well, let me just say it makes good sense for longevity for cardiovascular health, for circulatory health, for optimal hormone health. All of that just makes sense. And it makes even more sense for neurologic recovery because sugar is an inflammatory [00:13:01] chemical. So are phytotoxins like MSG and artificial food colorings and additives. All of those things create inflammation in the brain and after a concussion if somebody still having symptoms in their brain is still inflamed and last thing you want to do is add more fuel to that fire. So sugar is the number one no go. And then alcohol because it essentially works as a sugar in the body and it's neurotoxic. That's also a no-go and it's helpful to have a list of what exactly those things mean compared to a person's usual diet. So if a person's eating the standard American diet, it's going to be high in sugar. It's going to be high in phytotoxins like MSG and food colorings, and it's going to be high in processed foods, which has a lot of additives and maybe fried foods. [00:14:01] So all of those things that are pretty consistent with an American diet need to be changed and rehabilitated. And it's hard for people to take something out unless they're going to put something in because nature abhors a vacuum and sort of people's dietary and personal preferences. We don't like to give up something unless we're going to put something else in there. So these are relatively straightforward food kind of upgrades. There's actually another good book that I'll reference that a friend of mine authored a while back and it's called How to Feed a Brain by Cavin Balaster. He also had a severe TBI and was on a feeding tube and realized that the hospital was feeding them this just horrible standard hospital American nutrition. And so he started up level everything with some of the foods I'm going to speak about [00:15:01] and then blending them up in a Vitamix and putting it through his G-tube through his gastro tube. And at that point kind of like you were talking about with JJ and her son Grant when she started giving him high doses of high quality fish oil, he significantly turned the corner and started recovering at an accelerated pace. So did Cavin when Cavin started putting high quality foods Blended up into his G-tube. So there is sometimes the excuse for poor nutrition when people are on a G-tube and the only thing you're putting in there is something to the equivalent of Ensure which when you look at the ingredient list is touted as a nutritional food supplement but its primary ingredients are sugar high fructose corn syrup and a bunch of inflammatory additives. So it's helpful to know what things to take off the table and then to have a standard protocol [00:16:01] to work by. And that could be books on ketogenics, on more of an anti-inflammatory Paleo Approach, or AIP. And there's a lot of great books, and there's a lot of great apps, and there's a lot of great nutritional recipe stacks, and calendar formulas that you can put in to make it pretty easy and workable. So if a person was to do that, what would essentially they be orienting towards? High quality fats. We know that a ketogenic approach is rehabilitative to the nervous system because it's giving the brain and the nervous system more high quality fats than a person would typically get on a standard diet. And a person doesn't have to be strict keto like you don't necessarily be you're checking your urine ketones to get the benefit, but fairly low in their carbohydrates per day. And that might be lower than 50 to 60 [00:17:01] grams of carbs per day and if you're counting carbs, and that's fairly easy to get in a habit of. And it's fairly easy to do and a person can make a transition over a 7 to 10-day process without usually a whole lot of hiccups unless they're just crushing the cookies and ice cream and you're asking them to go low carb over a week. They may go through a detox process. But the general person who's eating relatively healthy can make a shift pretty quick. If a person has super strong cravings and any kind of detox your action, they just slow it down double the time be easy, but recognize too that slow changes lasting change. So high quality fats, moderate proteins, low carbs.
Ed Jones: Define high-quality fast for those who may not be real clear on that? I would do want to remind listeners that you know, I did a keto a podcast probably [00:18:01] nine months ago because I live every single day leaning strongly to keto is how I worded know. I'm not in full ketosis, but I'm a total believer in the anti-inflammatory effects of being in a very leaning keto diet. But what is the healthy fats?
Dr. Engle: Great. So then they can reference that because you've already kind of unpacked it and the summary statement would be high quality fats are things that are close to nature, easily assimilable, they tend to be more liquid than solid. And if you're looking at something like fish oil it's going to be typically more than would be consumed in just an average day. So if we were taken JJ's example working with her son and this comes from a book called When Brains Collide by Michael Lewis, and he did a lot of research on high doses of high quality fish oil [00:19:01] that was 12 to 16 grams per day. So you'd have to eating pounds and pounds of salmon every day to get that level of equivalent. Probably like four to five pounds a day. So short of that coconut oil is an excellent oil. Avocado oil is an excellent oil. Avocados just a general or a good if you can it's always better to get the whole food source versus just a processed extract or derivative or just one piece of it. So avocados when eaten in their whole form have a lot of excellent fiber and they have a lot of utilizable fat in the pulp itself. If you're using just the oil. You also have to have a fairly robust ability to digest all of those fats and not everybody does so some people when they transition might need to take extra digestive enzymes. Particularly lipase because lipase [00:20:01] breaks down all of the fats into a more utilizable component. The gallbladder is going to catch up in the body knows how to break down fats. But if you're relatively low and your fat intake per day and then you jump up to like 10x in an overnight, your gallbladder might take a bit of a hit. And what would that look like? It looks like belching, discomfort after eating, bloating, loose stools Etc. So those are some basic oils: fish oil, coconut oil, avocado oil. And then you're going to get typically a lot of good oils from your basic nuts and seeds. However, most of those have are a bit higher and Omega sixes and nines than they are in Omega-3s. And Omega-3s are essentially the building blocks of the nervous system especially the neuron sheath or the cell membrane. Now, it's DHA, [00:21:01] and EPA as the two principal components in fish oil that help build healthy neurons. So that's kind of a rundown. And your basic quality meats are going to be high. Meats need to be all organic as close to nature humanely and sustainably grown, processed, and harvested and ideally if it's grass-fed or any of your game meats then they are grown on or raised primarily grass fed and grass finished. And there are a lot of different reasons that we can unpack kind of all of those but that's just essentially like your standard operating procedure when it comes to oils and meats. And then as it relates to carbs as one of my teachers told me a long time ago, if you told somebody nothing else when it came to food, it's shop in that outer aisles [00:22:02] verses in the middle aisles. And basically I have two outer aisles tend to be where all your bulk goods are. So bulk beans, and nuts, and seeds, and grains, and vegetables etc. Whereas all the processed foods tend to be in the middle aisles: packaged foods, frozen foods, etc. So the basic carbs could be supported by whole grains and again, foods if we're going like Whole 30 kind of approach or paleo kind of approach, your foods are as close to nature as possible. So while purple potatoes and sweet potatoes and you're more like starchy vegetables are close to nature, they're also high in carbs. So anytime somebody is using that kind of approach in an early particularly acute phase,it's to minimize those really starchy vegetables and [00:23:02] that are going to spike your blood sugar. And also when able use your vegetables and those more starchy foods at in a raw form than a cooked form. For example beats will spike your blood sugar 1 to 5 points in a raw form versus if you eat cooked beets. They're going to spike your blood sugar by 50 points.
Ed Jones: Wow!
Dr Engle: Because the sugar is much more usable and simulator while they're still going to have fiber and your Cook beets are going to get the sugar into the system faster, but raw beets are still going to have a lot of the same benefits particularly if somebody's increasing their fat intake because beats help the gallbladder assimilate fats and most people don't get enough fiber in their diet. So there's so much benefit about it and being able to eat vegetables in their raw form unless somebody is really super weak in [00:24:02] a cold damp environment and it's clearly out of season. And you know here in Boulder right now in mid-January, they're not a whole lot of vegetables that grow above ground and unless you're curating them yourself. So I tend to eat more of the under the ground vegetables in a cooked form during the winter time and all of your above-ground vegetables uncooked or in a raw form in the summertime. So if we're just talking about nutritional approaches, the usual rules always apply: eat close to nature, eat clean mostly plants, not too much. Right? Kind of like the Omnivore's Dilemma approach that Michael Pollan wrote about. So when people do that and they're eating clean and they're working towards a more anti-inflammatory, paleo / [00:25:02] keto approach. They're taking care of 90% of their nutrition needs. They may not still be getting all the brain nutrients that they need for full recovery because it's just hard to get a lot of those in food form at the levels that are needed that if we got into specific brain supportive foods. Egg yolks are amazing because it's got lecithin B vitamins, fat soluble vitamins, and it's got a lot of the gene or the Mana like the life energy that makes new life. So egg yolks have a lot of the micro and macro nutrients the brain’s going to be fed on and nourished by. Not everybody can do eggs. Sometimes eggs are inflammatory for people even if they're high quality eggs. A person might have an allergy to them or they could be inflammatory. Usually the raw yolk is more simulator able than the cooked because once you start cooking protein [00:26:02] some sometimes they get a little bit more coagulated and are a little bit harder to digest. If people are doing dairy goats are usually a lot better than cow. So goat milk can be really healthy and healing for people again. They have to just check to see if it's inflammatory or not. How would you know? Being able to test how well people are essentially moving in their body and if they start bringing a consistent food in and they feel tighter with a little bit more inflammation, or they’re more sore or increases their brain inflammation and worsens all of their symptoms, and that could be a marker.
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Ed Jones: And let me let me make a comment here. I want to again re-emphasize how freaking impressed I am with you. We just don't have many people especially in the medical field who understand the big picture as you do Dr. Engel. Because I've witnessed it for my entire life the power of food and the things that you speak about is almost like somebody from another planet. Like the life energy of a food is important and you talk about you know, the eggs. The thing is we live in a part of the country here where we're way behind and you don't really find a lot of the great, you know sources of super clean foods at restaurants [00:28:02] or any place and so it's a search. But I'll tell you everybody knows that even the basic grocery store has eggs that rate from good, better, and best they actually do carry the really good eggs and I'm a huge huge fan of that as people who listen to me know. And of course, you know, so at this point we're talking again about traumatic brain injuries with Dr. Engle and you know persons were imagining that someone's had sand issue and again re-emphasizing the fact that isn't like the old days where you actually fell had, you know, black eyes and dilated pupils and the doc said you got a bad concussion. No. You can have brain injury even with far less aggressive Falls or anything else. So don't think that's not an issue. And we all fall. I mean, you know, if you live long enough you're going to slip on a sidewalk you're going to you know, just somewhere in the house, a bump your head on the wall. So, you know keep these things in mind. So at this point the diet where we're living on you're recommending a highly fat, anti-inflammatory diet. And [00:29:02] again, if people listen to me, that's probably every other podcast I speak of the value of that and and you've nailed it so perfectly in the one thing I want to re-emphasize which is so so confusing to people and I probably don't go a day without saying it. People seem to think because of food is grown in the earth and even and as organic that it has got to be healthy. And you’re exactly, right. We can eat super nutritious foods that actually are damaging us because of the inflammatory effects of fast-acting carbs. And you know, I wouldn't there was a day a lot of days and years that I would have like, oh the big glass of carrot juice is my friend. It is going to really help me. But there's so many carbs in that kind of drink. Or if you eat too many of these foods like you said that are nutritious but they're still way off the chart that's not good because we're focusing now, again on traumatic brain injuries. So we want to be on a diet that like you say a keto leaning, clean lot of foods. with Life Energy, talking about the high dose [00:30:02] of Omega-3s. And again, I'm not speaking for you. Dr. Engel, but like you've made a really strong point. It's impossible if you're trying to recover that you can eat enough foods with the Omega-3s. You have to supplement with, hopefully, very well-researched extremely clean product because they're not all clean people. You have to be a very astute consumer to know that. So we've gotten to the point we've helped either ourselves or a family member or friend or loved one to clean up their diet really fast. So now they're introducing the foods. They're living on the anti-inflammatory diet. What is the next step?
Dr. Engle: Yeah. Let me go ahead and just summarize some of the foods that I like the most. We'll move into strategies and supplementation. And I also speak about why the brain might not heal on its own. So just to wrap up that food part. We mentioned coconut oil, fish and fish oil. And fish. [00:31:02] You've probably talked about this in the past and just to summarize small fishes better than big fish has less toxins with heavy metals. Salmon or lower. And then wild-caught as much as possible or the very few companies that are doing farm-raised fish well. And i would prefer we all be able to eat wild caught fish but it's just not sustainable at some point. We're going to have to craft a really effective, sustainable, and nutritious farming system for fish because the oceans are just getting at this point farmed excessively and to a detriment. So those two foods. We mentioned egg yolks. Turmeric is another incredibly healthy food. It's much more bioavailable if you add black pepper to it. So therefore curries are oftentimes really helpful. They're also warming if people have a damper cold condition. Dark chocolate [00:32:02] is an actual really amazing food. Most chocolate on the market has a lot of sugars and hydrolyzed proteins and additives in there. So ideally as dark as possible.
Ed Jones: Now, would you count 72% dark enough or do we need it to be in the 80s?
Dr. Engle: 85 and higher.
Ed Jones: right that's what I say. 85 and higher. Okay.
Dr. Engle: Coffee is an excellent food for the brain. When you look at people in not necessarily coffee just by itself, but caffeine in general like green tea black tea and coffee. When you look at the numbers of people with stroke and dementia, it's quite a bit less when people actively consume something caffeinated on a regular basis. It's just particularly with coffee if it's not organic, it accumulates a lot of toxins because that's a lot of pesticides sprayed and it's also hard on the adrenals, [00:33:02] it screws up people sleep, and makes people anxious. So it's not there are other ramifications. I tend to be already pretty amped up. So if I do coffee on a regular day, I need to know that I'm going to burn it strong for the next four to six hours. And ideally bulletproof style or keto style where you're adding fat to it so it's smooths out the caffeine kind of arch, but those are just a summation of some really high-quality brain foods. Now if we talk about supplements before we go into that because that'll probably take us to the to the top of our hour, let me just also say the brain and the body are built to heal. The body and the brain are the most sophisticated supercomputer that we know in the universe at this point in time. The reason that people's brains typically do not heal after a concussion. Is number one is they got smashed beyond the brain's ability to heal [00:34:02] itself spontaneously, even if you were doing the right things. Secondarily most people are not doing the right things like getting good sleep, making sure that I mean and that's not to say that the docs even the old docs are not giving good advice. Yes go home and get some rest. Totally true. But we just happen to live in a very high paced, very neurologically traumatizing society. Our nervous systems have not caught up to the speed of our technology and that's why people are having more and more anxiety, and depression, more and more addiction, PTSD, chronic pain, chronic insomnia, etc. The psychiatric epidemics are notable even in the face of more and more psychopharmacology. It's because we don't live in a really natural paced environment. [00:35:02] We just haven't developed the buffering capacity internally to be able to to survive the neurologic onslaught of today's technology. So people need to really commit to good sleep and as much sleep as they need especially if they've just acutely gotten smashed. Thankfully most of the youth sports are outlawing head contact prior to high school age. And then most of the high school and collegiate athletes and semi pro sports are building up the reservoir of their accelerated healing technology and their protective mechanisms. The pro sports are mandating these better clarified return to play measures and when somebody does get smashed and they have to sit out for a period of time and they have to go get evaluated immediately. All those things [00:36:02] are important and the times that people don't heal spontaneously if they're doing all the usual right things is usually one of three things. They have gut issues. They have significant gut dysbiosis and inflammation. So their guts off. Number two: their immune systems off. And they may have some comorbid infection that is shunting all of their recuperative energy towards fighting off. And number three: they don't have enough hormones because when the brain gets hit often times you down regulate the master glands like your pituitary, pineal, and hypothalamus and if you don't have enough energy or if the like CPU of the brain at the master gland level is altered, and it's not functioning properly or it's not sending the right signals or it's not sending enough of the right signals. Then the rest of the body downstream [00:37:02] isn't able to function as well. So somebody might have low testosterone, low adrenals, and low thyroid but if it's because of a central issue, then you have to get the brain back online. And you can be giving as many peripheral hormone supports as you want, but that's only going to put you in the opposite direction of healing the brain because it's going to down regulate the small endogenous stores that you have. So the things that turn on the brain and heal the brain are essentially going to help upregulate all of those hormones stores because now you've got your central axis working better, and then you can test downstream to see if you do need to supplement beyond that. So those are the big things that we look at at our Clinic. We run a TBI specific, concussion specific clinical outside of Denver called Revive. And those are the big things that we see when we do our lab tests. This is somebody's immune system, digestive system, or hormone system [00:38:02] is off. Usually it's more than just one of those it's usually two or three of those are off and people have seen and usually gone to all the other good centers Mayo Clinic, Cleveland Clinic, etc and not found what we find because they're not looking at all of the metabolics. And those are the three primary metabolics. So just to let people know no, sometimes you have to educate your practitioner because a lot of docs just don't know some of the more advanced and current neurologic research. And so and that's the last thing you want to do. If you have your brain smashes, you don't have to be educating your practitioner. But unfortunately we have to and fortunately this is the day of information and podcasts like yours are giving people a lot of the ammunition and the information that they need in order to take empowerment back of their health care choices and direction and that means if your practitioner isn't listening then find another practitioner.
Ed Jones: [00:39:02] Yes, you're right. And I've interrupt you because again your book The Concussion Repair Manual would be to me the Bible of people who have really no knowledge and they do have a practitioner that they feel is flexible and workable and thinks outside the box. Hell let them reach your book. They can journey so much from just that Alone, and before we get into the specific other little Subs, I'm sorry to interrupt. Dr. Engle but I've got one person who really wanted me to ask you. Is something like cerebral palsy if some a child was born in that with that and about nine months old or whatever. It would that with these kind of protocols also help brain development in children who were born with, you know, significant issues like that?
Dr. Engle: There's going to be a lot of overlap and CP is very unique and will require a of physical therapy and rehabilitation and strategy. CP is not my area of expertise, but we have seen kids [00:40:02] with CP in our clinic and there are a lot of similarities when you're talking about dietary strategies, and going more keto, and going more anti-inflammatory and using some of the supplements that we're going to go over here and just a little bit. And continuously working to accelerate the goals and the strategies to maximize that little child in that young person's neurologic development and recovery.
Ed Jones: Yes, perfect.
Dr. Engle: The people that I've seen that are really good with kids and young adults with CP. They've got an eye for it. They have a knack for it. They have a really keen intuitive understanding of how much to push and when to push. And this is another thing about brain injury recovery in general. A lot of people are doing the right things, but they're too and they're actually doing too much of the right things like cardiovascular fitness [00:41:02] and aerobic and anaerobic fitness and exercise can be really good. But if you're doing too much it can actually be detrimental. All medicines have their sweet spot including food including nutrition, including water, including sunlight, including sleep. If used too little there's no effect or it's not enough if Used too much. It's typically poisonous or detrimental. So a person is doing too much exercise then the feedback is going to be a worsening of their core symptoms. And that too much of like trying to much or doing more than their circuit board can handle so to speak will push them over the metabolic threshold. And oftentimes stimulate the core symptoms to get worse and one of those things is eye movements. The visual field takes up the majority of the brain's input.
Ed Jones: Really?
Dr. Engle: Just as easy as reading and your [00:42:02] in eyes going back and forth. It's kind of like a psychotic herb, not psychotic, but subcotic movement back and forth movement can be a huge strain on an inflamed brain and that's why it's hard for people to read on a book much less on a computer because now you have all this background light that's typically blue light infused. That's also very stimulating to an inflamed brain.
Ed Jones: Interesting. Well, I believe I know we have about eight minutes left. Can we get to the supplements? Because that's more you know, that's what I'm really interested in also along with everything else. But you have so many freaking jewels of information. I'm just blown away by it. So, you know, so let's kind of go down the list a few more things if I was your patient, you know, I fell on the dip rack and I hit my head and I've got these symptoms and I'm one week out and I am stable. Like you do say in the book, you know, this is not meant to be when you're in the acute situation in the early stages. You have to be stabilized and then [00:43:02] tell me some of the things you might recommend for a patient or someone like me?
Dr Engle: Yeah, the two biggest supplements straight out of the gate and you might get two different answers or you might get different answers from other practitioners about what their two favorites would be but mine are fish oil and CBD. Cannabidiol which is your non-psychoactive primary constituent. Well, it's the primary one that's known and touted but there's a lot of other CBN, CBG, THC those are your psychoactive component of medical cannabis. CBD is your non-psychoactive form of medical cannabis and CBD is hugely anti-inflammatory and it supports neurologic recovery. It's also neuro protectant. So people with it on board, if they're playing combat sports and CBD is allowed by water tests and most if not all I think at this point of the professional sports associations people with CBD on [00:44:02] board that are going to go into high contact or combat sport kind of arena, have less of a likelihood of developing a concussion or TBI long as a sequela if they have an injury if they have CBD on board.
Ed Jones:That is so interesting. And in fact, we've done three podcasts on CBD. I actually the one last week we did and not one of these three people has ever said that what a piece of magic. Because there's another reason to make sure not only to be wise about options in treatment. But to be wise about the prevention to have us that build that flexibility and that cushion so that when life happens we are far more prepared than the person who's already their gas tanks empty on all this. So that's one omega-3 high dosing CBD. What's anything else?
Dr. Engle: Yeah, and then your liposomal glutathione, liposomal vitamin C, and alpha lipoic acid. Now those are just like [00:45:02] across-the-board beneficial. You could get more targeted. So if somebody had depression as a result of post-concussive syndrome or mood lability as a result, then lithium orotate, is really good. This is different than carbonate which is the prescription which in high doses negatively affects the thyroid and the kidneys but lithium orotate at like 5 to 20 milligrams a day can be a really good to calm the excitatory flaring at the cellular level. Lipoic acid, Vitamin C or just antioxidants and anti-inflammatory agents and some of glutathione is as well.
Ed Jones: Wow, you know, I've talked to so many people who are knowledgeable, very knowledgeable. Very few people have your wide what range the things you have just talked about. Dr. Engle. I mean the thing about lithium. I know the New York Times had a really great article about four years ago in the headlines was should we put a small amount of [00:46:02] lithium and all drinking water? Because they're talking about the neuroprotective effects of it and the memory of ability to maintain memory as we age. And you know, people classify a word like lithium. Oh, it's bad because you know Mannix takes it has all these side effects. There's all kind of colors to everything and it's low dosing and I did it for years. I took small doses of 3-5 milligrams but you know you only you kind of get off the radar screen and you quit taking those things. But I love everything the omega-3 is a coconut oil, the CBD, the glutathione, and I'm huge fan of what you're saying. The Lipo your increases absorption rate. Yes, it tastes terrible because they're in liquids, but there's so much more bioavailable and I just I just love everything you are about all the journey, your personal journey. I think I read that you lived in the jungle for one year by yourself or whatever. Is that true?
Dr. Engle: Yeah I did.
Ed Jones: Oh, I'm jealous my friend. I'm so jealous. How old were you when you did that?
Dr. Engle: [00:47:02] This is about 12 years ago. I was about 33-34.
Ed Jones: Oh my gosh. Just give me a 30-second. Was it a kind of a turning point in your life?
Dr. Engle: 100%
Ed Jones: Okay.
Dr. Engle: I went down to study from the herbalist and the Plant medicine teachers there, and it was really good to just unplug. No running water. No electricity. No other Gringos. Just me.
Ed Jones: Well my brother I so appreciate your time. Dr. Engel you're going to help so many people so I cannot cannot. Thank you enough and again the concussion repair manual, but dr. Dan Eagle you have a great day my friend.
Dr. Engle: Will do Ed and I look forward to our next conversation.
Ed Jones: Yes, sir. All right, and thank everyone for listening to the holistic Navigator. As always please send your questions and recommend it to your friends. Thank you so much. You really make my day all of you and especially guests like Dr. Engel. Have a great fearless [00:48:02] and very happy day. Thank you.
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