Fish Oil vs Krill Oil: A Conversation with Dr. Mike Smith of Life Extension
Similar in function, fish oil and krill oil have long been lauded for their many health benefits. Omega-3 fatty acid chains are an essential nutrient and should be part of everyone’s dietary supplement toolkit, but remember QUALITY is everything. Poor quality omega-3 supplements are some of the few supplements that could potentially do more harm than good.
MEET Dr. Mike Smith:
On this episode, Ed sits down with Dr. Mike Smith of Life Extension. Dr. Smith is an author, national spokesperson and senior health scientist for Life Extension. Ed and Dr. Smith discuss the key differences between fish and krill oil, the implications of chronic inflammation, how to increase your omega-3 blood levels, and how to choose a quality omega supplement.
SOME POINTS WE DISCUSS:
Why are omega-3s important to consider? (4:55)
What is the recommended dosage of omega-3? (12:32)
Which is better: krill oil or fish oil? (19:10)
SOME KEY TAKEAWAYS FROM THIS EPISODE:
Omega-3s are a foundational supplement. (5:33)
Omega-3s benefit so many functions of the body: cognition, mood, cardiovascular, eye health, immune health, and more. (6:37)
When buying an omega-3 supplement, you need to make sure you’re looking at how much EPA DHA is in it vs the total amount of oil. (14:30)
At the end of the day, just take some form of omega-3 every day. (22:46)
PRODUCTS + RESOURCES:
Thank you to this episode’s sponsor: Life Extension
GET SOCIAL WITH DR. SMITH:
CLICK HERE FOR THE FULL SHOW TRANSCRIPT
Brian Strickland 00:43 Hello, friends and welcome back to another episode of The Holistic Navigator Podcast, where we believe in the body's ability to heal itself. I'm Brian Strickland, the producer of the show. And we're excited to speak with Dr. Mike Smith of Life Extension this week, as many devoted fans describe him as the country doctor with the city education. And Dr. Smith is an author, national spokesperson in Senior Health scientists for Life Extension, the world's leading organization dedicated to helping people stay healthy and live better. So we hope you enjoy this conversation with Dr. Smith. As we discuss the differences between fish and krill oil, and the importance of having healthy fats in your diet.
Ed Jones 01:30 I'm so excited that you're listening to us today on The Holistic Navigator. And we have a topic and a guest today that I'm so excited to have on our show. Before I introduce him, I want to give you a little preface here what we will be speaking about. You know, being that I've been in this world of nutrition for over 40 years, in fact, just celebrated our 40th anniversary last month. questions come at me from morning till night. People are in a state of great confusion because we're almost over supplied with information because of the internet. And sometimes people just throw their hands up as far as help or helping themselves to come to an answer because you've got so much out there and you become like analysis paralysis? Well, one of these questions that continues to prop up is, we mostly know there's a huge benefit to raising our level of what we call omega three fatty acids, we all seem to know probably that that generally as far as food sources comes from healthy fish like salmon and many of the others. But the thing is marketing wise, years ago, there was kind of a newer product coming out. I don't probably 10 years ago, maybe 12 called krill oil. And so many of my clients and and people who are, you know, part of this nutrition conversation, keep asking me, should I do krill oil because I see all the ads about how much more bioavailable they are, how they're lower in the food chains, that means they have less heavy metals blank, blank, blank blank. And I have some has always apparently strong opinions personally on that, which was we're going to get into today. But there's a company that I absolutely have respected probably as much or more than any company that I've dealt with in 40 years, and that is Life Extension foundation. They're actually a nonprofit organization that that truly focuses on prevention, holistic, functional medicine, and they scour the research of the world to always be on the cutting edge of everything. Next, they have protocols on their website for many, many different health disorders. And we've followed those to the tee on some people for probably 12 years. And today, we are so fortunate to have a physician from life extension. He is the Director of Education medical physician for 15 years, and I have interviewed him one of the time and and been with him once and he's fantastic as far as he's a walking encyclopedia. And I can't wait to hear what he has to say about this decision making point of krill versus regular omega. Welcome Dr. Mike from Life Extension.
Dr. Mike Smith 04:24 Hey, thanks for having me. It's great to be here.
Ed Jones 04:27 And you know, you and I have talked enough in the past to know that you know, we're on the same wavelength we we have the same philosophical beliefs about health foods, nutrition, inflammation, and we also realize that that is a very confusing world for the normal consumer out there. And you know, and and so, let me hear your first off before I think I want to get into the exact question of krill versus omega. Let's talk just for a minute if you will, why would a person even Want to consider raising their omega three levels in the body?
Dr. Mike Smith 05:04 Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. Right. So, and by the way, there's, there's ample research to support everything I'm about to tell you right. And, and I even think more of the conventional physicians following that conventional wisdom, even they are starting to understand there's, there's a lot of really good research clinical trials, showing the benefits of omega threes. You know, I think I'm, which, by the way, I, I consider the omega threes to be a foundational supplement, right? This is, this is something everybody should be taking, regardless of what your goals are, what you're doing. I mean, this is really that important, these omega, these omega threes, but then at the end, right off the bat, the first thing we got to mention, obviously, you kind of touched on this a little bit in your intro inflammation, right? There is no doubt that when you raise your blood level of omega threes, and some studies have shown even just 10 to 15% higher, that's not significant, really, you can have a major impact on easing that chronic inflammation that tends to develop in us as as we get older. And that's, that is so important. Because it's clear inflammation is the common denominator of all age related disorders that we that we face. I'm not saying it's all cause effect, right? I'm not saying inflammation causes all those. But inflammation, chronic inflammation specifically plays a role in how chronic diseases develop, how they progress and what the outcome will be. So we definitely, in terms of brain health, heart health, eye health, immune health, we definitely want to raise the omega three levels in our in our blood, so that way, we ease inflammation, but it it goes beyond that it's not just this vague, easing inflammation statement that I make, I think when I say that sometimes people don't fully understand what that means. But, but it is critical, but the omega threes have been shown to actually impact very specific disease states. For instance, you know, omega threes have been well proven now to be able to improve depression symptoms, and depression scores and people with major depressive disorder. I mean, there's four or five clinical trials, showing the benefit of omega threes and mood disorders, macular degeneration, and you know, any any issue there's, there's three or four different retinal diseases that can occur as we get older, and it seems omega threes can help protect the retina against all of those age related conditions in the eye. Obviously, we, you know, besides mood, you omega threes clearly are shown to improve cognition, and memory and even focus. So it just, it really does go go on and on. And of course, lastly, cardiovascular disease, right? So we know that that heart disease is multifactorial. At life extension, we've actually identified 19 independent risk factors, not just the four or five, your, your traditional conventional doctor knows, but 19 and and when you look at these 19, raising your omega three levels can actually impact many of those of those risk factors. So heart disease, you know, brain issues, cognitive issues, neuro degeneration, you know, ocular health, mood issues. I mean, he just covers the whole, the whole gamut. And of course, at the heart of it is the fact that these amazing fats play a role in easing inflammation at the end of the day. So yeah, please, this is a foundational nutrient I want everybody taking it.
Ed Jones 08:50 What a wonderful summary of all the benefits. And the truth is that, you know, most individuals, maybe at a certain time of history, they were actually eating enough of the foods to do this. And you can do it if you make very wise choices. In fact, I had a lady and we do a lot of blood analysis here for what we call functional medicine. And I know, part of the studies are showing that in some people's opinion, and I tend to lean this way that the omega three levels tested in blood is considered the number one more marker for mortality in some studies, and I have looked at 500 different people over the past probably five years, their omega three levels, and there were two people who had very high levels who did not supplement but they were eating one entire can of the highest quality sardines every day, and one other one was eating a can of the type of salmon that would be the highest quality and they weren't supplementing, but everyone else seemed to require supplementation to raise their level to the right level. So,
Dr. Mike Smith 10:03 Yeah, I don't I don't you know, I don't know, most people aren't going to want to do a can of sardines every day, right? And then that's fine, right? We're all that's, that's great. I like sardines, I wouldn't eat a can a day.
Ed Jones 10:14 No. And, and I don't like sardines. So I'm definitely not going to eat and why would I? Because actually, you know that we've read it before that, you know, the purity of the right, omega three and supplements is far safer, generally than trying to guess whether the fish was in the right place or not. Because wherever they swam, that's where the heavy metals will be found. And toxins and heavy metals are dis so devastatingly destructive to everything, including the mental state, the physical state, and you know, the omega three levels. Again, we have actual psychiatrists, two of them here in our local area. And they're, you know, they really insist on their patients with bipolar, ADHD.
Dr. Mike Smith 10:56 Absolutely. Yeah. ADHD is a very interesting one, right? There's a couple of studies showing just increasing the omega three levels in kids with ADHD just by about 20% had some dramatic dramatic effect.
Ed Jones 11:08 Yes. And I always say, you know, when people come in, my child has, you know, they're wanting to put him on medication. What do you recommend? Well, first off, I always say there's not a magic pill. We have a very complex system nutritionally, and pharmaceuticals, they love to market with one pill, one cure all type of mottos, but that's not fixing the system. And I love the fact that you know, you always reference, like, the heart of the matter is what you said, of omega three is reducing inflammation. Two of the podcast that we have done here on the Holistic Navigator, I was very, very explaining and outspoken about this concept that if you want to age gracefully, you have to reduce inflammation, what's the best way to do it, there's not one magic theory, but omega threes have to be one of the early ones.
Dr. Mike Smith 11:57 Yeah, that's why I call them a foundational nutrient, right? That's I mean, these are, you know, regardless of what your goals may be, what you're trying to accomplish, you know, maybe you have specific issues with the heart, brain, whatever, maybe you just want to be more healthy doesn't really matter, that you have to get started on omegas and it's not just the ease inflammation, these important fats play a role in cell structure, brain cell structure. So it, you know, they, I mean, they're critical. And I encourage everybody, to, yes, eat some fatty fish maybe a couple times a week, but then supplement every day. You know, speaking of the dosing of omega as it is recommended, NIH, based on the cardiovascular benefits does recommend and this is from a couple different studies, of 500 milligrams of omega threes, specifically, every day, and that and that's an important point to make, because what a lot of doctors are doing, and I and I hate to say it, I think I've done this myself, recommending fish oil to people, I'll say something like, take one to two grams of fish oil a day or take two grams official a day. What people don't realize, though, is fish oil has a lot of different fats in it, not just the omega threes, right? And you got to make sure that whatever product that you're you decided to buy in that serving is actually giving you out of that two grams, let's say is giving you at least 500 milligrams of total omega threes. So keep that in mind that you just you don't want to just look for official that's one to two grams, you got to look on that back label, you got to identify the key omega threes, which are EPA, DHA, and make sure they at least and I say at least I think it should be higher, but at least they add up to 500 mg.
Brian Strickland 13:48 Hey everyone wanted to pause for a moment and tell you about this week's sponsor. This episode is brought to you by Life Extension. Life Extension has been a trusted source of clinically studied vitamins and supplements for over 35 years. A well known industry leader, their main focus has been centered on quality, purity and potency. True innovators in the supplement industry, you can rest assured that with every Life Extension product you purchase, you're receiving one of the most effective clinically dosed products on the market. Life Extension, stay healthy, live better.
Ed Jones 14:30 Wow, that's that's what a important bullet point and yes, I echo that. And what I usually advise people is when they say oh, my doctors told me to take 1000 milligrams say, let me show you something and I'll pick a bottle off the shelf and say, what most of the time these supplement companies are doing which there's nothing wrong with this. They'll list 1000 milligrams on the front label, but that all that really means is and I do it very simple explanation. It's the size of the capsule or the size of the amount of oil, it does not tell you the active ingredients, I'd say, turn the bottle around, add up EPA, DHA che. And of course I shoot for two, you know, 2000 milligrams a day personally. And I can certainly do less than that. But I really like to shoot for no less than 1000 and try my optimal is 2000.
Dr. Mike Smith 15:20 I like that higher dose too. I you know, one of the other things you can do for you know, for the listeners, and this is just a general good rule of thumb and most of the physicians I work with agree with this general rule is, when you look at the the attorney, turn that bottle around, get to that back label, look at look at the total fish oil amount, and you want to make sure your EPA DHA are at least half of that. So if it's if it's a 2000 milligram bottle, you want to make sure your EPA DHA add up to at least 1000 that I think is a good quality product. That's that's dosed pretty well, life extension, we do have this joy, we dose it a little bit higher. We're a little bit more than half. And I think that's even better. But just again, a good rule of thumb. You know, if your doctor says you need a gram 1000 milligrams a day of fish oil, you want to pick a product that would at least have that 500 milligrams of the omegas.
Ed Jones 16:21 And secondarily, which I know I don't want to get too much into this that the sourcing of the oil has to been really focused on to not have chemicals, heavy metals or oxidation. If they produce it in an improper manner it's not fresh, we're actually going to do more harm than good if we're an introducing basically, I only all that is rancid it's and we all know you know if we've smelled say a bag of nuts that we've had stored too long and we open it and that that terrible, rancid smell hits our nose, well they kind of can stay hidden and fish oil sometimes we're so you can say the head just even your nose will tell you how unhealthy that is. Now I'm looking here at a Life Extension the one the called clearly EPA DHA. And you know, four capsules, you're getting 1500 milligrams of EPA and 1000 of DHA for four capsules. That's pretty impressive.
Dr. Mike Smith 17:21 That's pretty good, too. Yeah, and it really looks cool. I love this. I love the way this soft gel actually does look. But again, if you look at that dosing, that's kind of what you want to see, you know, the, the, you know, the total fish oil concentrate is, I think about 3500 milligrams in that. So you're getting if you're getting 1500 of the EPA, 1000 of the DHA, you know, giving you more than half really of what that total is. So we're giving you the right amount, the right ratio of those omega threes in that one product. What you mentioned something to about how it's processed and all that kind of stuff. There is a organization it's called IFOS it's the international fish oil standards. This is a third party, unbiased company that actually tests fish oils randomly. And you could get a one star which would be very bad all the way up to a five star and I think I personally wouldn't purchase a product that doesn't have a five star ranking from IFOS that five star ranking means that it seeds, World Health Organization standards for quality impurity. And so you know, you're taking a good product.
Ed Jones 18:35 I love that. And you know, the devils in the details of all these kind of conversations about nutrition and we try to be the gatekeeper for people and like doing this education, because it's so important to find people that are trustworthy, and I certainly have found Life Extension to be that way. When you mentioned opening it because I take so many supplements myself, I actually didn't remember the look of it. It is I you know I'm a connoisseur of supplements, it is beautiful. And it also has a wonderful smell. But so I love that. Well let's let's segue into the kind of the, the major bullet point of this conversation, which is what a person when they walk into any good nutrition store with they want to choose something called krill oil over what we're looking at, which is regular omega, when I say regular omega, it can come from sardines, it can come from tilapia could come from many different sources. But krill is, is is something a little different. But explain that and then let's talk about is it a worthy of spending that extra money in order to get the omegas from krill?
Dr. Mike Smith 19:45 Yeah, yeah, great question. And I'm glad you're asking because I know there's a lot of confusion. But before I answer that, the first thing I just want to say is just please get omega threes every day. If you do If you decide krill over fish oil or fish over krill, fine, we can have a debate of what might be better, whatever, but get at least the 500 milligrams of omega threes at least every day. So don't get to, like you mentioned, you know, the paralysis by analysis. This, don't let that happen, at some point, make a decision and start supplementing. That's I just wanted to get out there. But yeah, so there are there are some subtle differences. You know, they both are producing the omega threes. EPA DHA, and there's other like mid, what we call middle chained are a little smaller chain omega threes that you'll find in in both so at the end of the day, it is it is still all about omega threes. There are there is some evidence that krill omegas may absorb better, there's been a couple of studies published recently showing a little bit of a higher plasma concentration with krill versus fish oil. However, it wasn't I wouldn't say it was statistically significant the difference, you know, maybe doing krill would raise for some people their blood level, if they did it consistently, say in a month 25% where fish oil might do it 20%. So so there is some evidence that krill may absorb better. And if that's if your goal is a higher and higher plasma level, maybe it's worth the the the expense of krill, because that's the other side thing is, you know, krill is a little bit more expensive than fish. So it's a little bit harder to process the omegas from krill versus fish sources. So you're going to find that the price is a little bit higher in krill. And there's some other little things to talk about, for instance. You know, it looks like there was a couple studies that came out in 2013. That found again, after about four weeks, I think that's a good. By the way, when you start supplementing with fish oil, if you want to know how your blood level is being impacted, you can test that there are tests out there and it but give it about a month. Most of the studies give it four weeks, again, a little bit higher EPA da levels in in people with krill. And it did seem that krill had a little bit better effect in some of these studies on joint issues and joint pain and joint inflammation. Whereas the fish oil seems to do a little bit better more with the generalized systemic inflammation. So if you're a cardiovascular patient, and systemic inflammation is important to you fish older might be a better way to go. If you're a rheumatoid arthritis patient. It looks like maybe krill might be a better way to go. At the end of the day. It's all omega threes, krill maybe absorb a little bit better, it is a little bit more expensive. Krill seems to have a better effect on joints, fish oil, a little bit better effect on the heart. People do also debate how these omega threes are stored up in the body. Krill stores up as phospholipids. And the fish oil stores up the triglycerides. And when everybody whenever and when someone hears that they hear you know fish oil gets stored as triglycerides that scares them. However, there's really been no consistent study that has shown that taking fish oil will raise triglyceride levels. They're stored as triglycerides, but they're not necessarily raising the plasma level. So don't let that scare you. So I think there's a little less difference between this phospholipid form and the triglyceride form based on the current research looking at does fish oil, increased triglycerides, and that is not clear in the research at this point. So that's just kind of a nice little breakdown. At the end of the day member the omega threes are foundational. Please take make that decision to go for it.
Ed Jones 23:56 What a wonderful synopsis of that. And my take on it is like I'm just sitting here looking at Life Extension. If you only did two capsules of Life Extension and you are going to get 1250 milligrams of combined EPA DHA and I'm looking at a very well known brand of krill oil, two capsules of that will give 180 milligrams a day. So we're looking at 1250 to 180. Yes, it's better absorbed. But I don't know if you you know, when I look at people's blood work again on omega threes. I'm not saying if they follow the box's instructions directions, it isn't raising the blood level of omega three that you can get from doing something like life extensions and that higher dose of pure product. But again, if a person has compromised systems, maybe the krill won't be a choice for the absorption and like you mentioned rheumatoid arthritis is seems to have an affinity for certainly a few things. Again, I am mister supplement guru of all time and I'm just like okay, life I'm not really sure hell let's just take both of them, you know, I'll take one or two krill, and I'll take two or three omegas.
Dr. Mike Smith 25:05 And we appreciate that Life Extension, we've combined the two, we have a, we have official krill product and easy for you. Personally, I've always just done the fish oil I haven't I feel like I do test my blood levels. And, you know, I do two to four grams a day and my blood levels have have been optimal for many years now. So the fish oil works just fine for me. And I feel like I'm getting a nice benefit.
Ed Jones 25:29 Now, how do you test? Are you doing the finger prick? Or are you doing a regular blood draw?
Dr. Mike Smith 25:33 Yeah, no, we do the Omega score test, which is a finger prick. And that that had that just recently has been clinically validated. So I'm fine with the finger prick. So that's what we that's what we use here in support.
Ed Jones 25:45 How would a person get that test?
Dr. Mike Smith 25:48 Oh, you call Life Extension. Yeah, yeah, it's real simple minutes is you can do in your at your own home, it's a little kit that we would mail to you, you prick, your finger doesn't hurt, it's not that bad. Just dab the blood on this little piece of paper. And within a week, you'll have your own your omega levels all laid out. And it's not just looking at EPA, DHAlooking at the total omegas in your blood, the EPA, the DHA these these medium chain ones. So that you know, there's a lot of different types of omega threes, we also look at your omega six, because we want to make sure that you have a nice balance between omega three and omega six. Right. I don't know if we have time to talk about that. But it helps you look at that rage ratio, which, which I also think is important as well.
Ed Jones 26:30 About what is the approximate cost of that test? Oh, you know, I don't know, I could look it up. You got me? Well, I I'm guessing because I've done three or four. But it's been some time and I'm guessing around $100-120 somewhere in that range.
26:46 Yeah, it looks like we have to we have one that's called the omega three index plus, that's $105. And actually, you know, Life Extension, we have what's called your price because of our reward program. And it's only $80. And then the there's another one that's a little more comprehensive, that's $132 retail, but you can get a life extension for $100.
Ed Jones 27:09 Wow. So I guess pretty well done.
Dr. Mike Smith 27:12 Good job you did, I didn't even know.
Ed Jones 27:15 And yes, we don't have time to talk about omega six. But here's the whole 15 second bullet point is mega six, you we need a little of that. But we don't need it out of range, because that's what kind of dominates a lot of inflammation. And so we have a ton of omega six and not enough of three, you're feeding the fire, the feeding the fire, faster aging, the feeding the fire, higher disease rates. And so back in the history, when people were healthier, we ate a ratio that was modestly close between three and omega six today the American citizens eating about 10 to 20 times higher omega six than they do omega three, if a person wants to access Life Extension, what is the website and what how would they go about ordering or talking or and I love if you want to mention the health of counselors at life extension for more help.
Dr. Mike Smith 28:04 Lifeextension.com the websites very easy to navigate to different products labs to all the education materials that we have. So just lifeextension.com. But we also on the bottom of the homepage, you'll see a number and that number is to the wellness specialist and I I gotta tell you, I don't know of any other foundation or company that does is we have doctors, we have Fitness Trainers, nurses, we have clinical nutritionist registered dieticians, who who are on the phone, you can call and ask anything you can you can call in ask why Why did my doctor prescribe this drug? Or is this drug to interfere with this supplement, or what's the best supplements for XYZ I mean, they will sit they will spend the time with you. in helping you understand what what may be going on in your life, we'll help you understand how to build a regimen and make sure that regimen is going to work for you if you get the labs like the omega three index that we have, but we have doctors that will spend as much as 30 minutes to an hour on the phone with you explaining those results in what it means to you and what you should do about those results. And so I that's just a service, that's unheard of. And it's amazing and awesome. And yes, please take advantage of that.
Ed Jones 29:21 Oh man, that what you know, that is life saving information because people feel so paralyzed by having a hope that they can go into their regular physician and have these conversations and when you and I know it is not happening. In fact, I think it's getting worse because of the handcuffs. They're put on health care professionals. I'll say this often. The people involved in the healthcare system are really good people as a general rule, but it's the system that's broke and is breaking the people and you if you think you're going to get this information act by getting a physical, you are clueless and you can you have to assemble a team I always speak about putting a team approach together, it doesn't mean you get rid of your regular Doc, you go there for the needs that he offers, or he she offers, but you have to have people like your people and life extension or, or all the stuff that goes on with functional medicine in your own town or your and your health food store. If it's if it's privately owned, and they really care about things, you have to put these pieces together or you're going to be subjected to the same woes that so many others are, which is a, you know, things are hitting 50 year olds now that used to hit 70 year olds. And why is that? Well, we could talk for five hours about it. But if you if you just pretend it's not going to happen, you're sticking your head in the sand. And and I think I know you well enough to know that you would agree with all of that. Yes, for sure.
Dr. Mike Smith 30:46 Yes, absolutely. And so yeah, and that's really what we do, we try to empower people, right, you know, take you see yourself as in the in the, in the whole medical institutions in the in the in the healthcare system, you really got to see yourself as your own champion, you know, and, and he question your doctors quit. And of course, always respectfully, I'm not saying be rude. But, you know, if you're not sure about something, if you want to try something, you know, I think you need to stand up for yourself, the old days where the doctor patient relationship was very paternal. Right? I wouldn't tell you what to do. And you just did it right, those days really should be gone. And I think people need to be open to all the vast information out there and all the other alternative ways of of looking at health and wellness. And so life extension can be a partner with you and all of that.
Ed Jones 31:35 I love it. And you know, how many people listening would go into a cell phone store and go to Verizon and say, I want you to tell me which cell phone to get? No, no one would do that. You're going to pick the one that you need. And you're going to ask a lot of questions, right? Oh, man, I mean, we've all stood there while people asked 25 questions, but they need to get it they need to have information before they make decisions. And if you only listen to the one person, you're probably gonna not lose when because most people walk in cell phone stores. stores are already pretty adequate with what their needs are. So they're we're ready to question for Dr. Mike. As always, it's just a phenomenal opportunity for all of us to listen and learn from a noted expert like yourself. Thank you. And if anyone else has questions, I can certainly Email us at the holistic navigator. And we're going to do this again in a few months on a different topic. So best to you, Dr. Mike, have a great day.
Brian Strickland 32:38 All right. That's it for this week's episode of the Holistic nNavigator podcast. Be sure to connect with us online at theholisticnavigator.com and if you love this episode, be sure to head over to iTunes to subscribe, rate and leave a review. It's really, really appreciate it. We hope you guys have a great week, and we'll see you at the next episode. Take care everyone.