How Vitamin K2 Could Save Your Life with Dr. Kate of Natural Factors
As we grow older it becomes more and more important to maintain bone density and strength. While many people know that supplementation with calcium and Vitamin D3 are an important part of that effort, Vitamin K2 is often overlooked. The truth is, without Vitamin K2 we may be depositing calcium in unwanted areas and causing harm to our health.
Meet Dr. Kate:
On this week’s episode we’re excited to welcome back Dr. Kate Rhéaume to the show. Dr. Kate is a naturopathic doctor, author, and educational speaker for Natural Factors with a wealth of real world experience. She guides us through the exact role Vitamin K2 plays in our bodies, from bone health, dental health, and everything in between. Plus, she walks us through the danger in Vitamin K deficiency and how we might be more at risk than we think. Listen in and enjoy!
Some Questions We Discuss:
Why do we need Vitamin K? (4:53)
What are some of the signs of Vitamin K2 deficiency? (8:09)
What are some drugs that play into this conversation? (9:00)
I eat plenty of greens. Do I still need to take Vitamin K? (10:22)
What are the differences between Vitamin K1 and K2? (11:00)
How do we dose Vitamin K based on how we dose Vitamin D? (13:55)
Are there side effects if we take Vitamin K? (16:22)
Does Vitamin K thicken your blood? (17:14)
Who should take Vitamin K? (19:36)
Some Key Takeaways From This Episode:
Vitamin K2 is one of the most important nutrients someone can take (3:27)
Calcium is a double edge sword. We need it but we need to make sure it gets to the right places. (5:18)
Vitamin K2 helps get the calcium where it needs to go. (5:55)
Tooth sensitivity may be a sign of Vitamin K2 deficiency (7:46)
Vitamin K2 does not come from green leafy vegetables and it is common to be deficient in Vitamin K2. (11:32)
Vitamin D is vital but it will make us absorb calcium with no limit and the calcium has to go somewhere. That’s why we need Vitamin K2 to direct the calcium to the right places. (14:24)
Products + Resources:
Get Social with Dr. Kate:
Twitter: @DoctorKateND
Facebook: @doctorkatend
Website: https://doctorkatend.com
CLICK HERE FOR THE FULL SHOW TRANSCRIPT
Brian Strickland: [00:00:00] If you're looking for a trusted source of natural supplements, look no further than nutritionw.com. Since 1979, Nutrition World has been a staple in the Chattanooga community with dedicated research specialists that stay ahead of the trends to make sure you have the most reliable products available at the most competitive prices. All of their supplements are vetted for quality, effectivity and potency and shipped with the utmost care with cold packs included in each and every order. You can shop online now at nutritionw.com/shop and choose from thousands of your favorite supplements, sports nutrition, pet, and specialty food products today. Nutrition World - Partners on your Wellness Journey.
What's going on everyone? Welcome back to The Holistic Navigator Podcast where we believe in the body's capacity for self healing if it's given the proper nutrients and care it deserves. My name is Brian Strickland. I'm the producer of the show and here with me in [00:01:00] the studio as always is our host Ed Jones. On this week's episode, we're excited to welcome back. Dr. Kate Rhéaume. Dr. Kate is a naturopathic doctor, author, and educational speaker for Natural Factors. And she's got a wealth of real world experience. Today we're speaking about her book Vitamin K and the calcium Paradox and Vitamin K is an often overlooked nutrient that is essential when it comes to developing healthy bones and many other functions in the body. But the lack of it can cause some serious issues. I'll leave it to the expert to explain exactly what that looks like. So let's go ahead and jump into this episode. Here's the host of our show. Mr. Ed Jones.
Ed Jones: Thank you Brian and welcome everyone to The Holistic Navigator. We have been doing this now for quite some time and I've had many exciting interviews with people. Today is one I have actually been waiting on for probably a couple years because I have a tremendous interest [00:02:00] in what this physician has written about in her book and spoke about throughout the country, which is Vitamin K. Vitamin K. Welcome to The Holistic Navigator, Dr. Kate Rhéaume. How are you today?
Dr. Kate: Thanks Ed. Very well glad to be here.
Ed Jones: I know we've spoke before about Earth day and this one is going to be totally about a topic of great conversation that I have probably every single day with could be a dozen or more people about the importance of vitamin K and how it cannot be ignored. I really really believe as Dr. Mercola has I think written in one of his articles vitamin K. This could even be bigger than the vitamin D discovery. Now you wrote a book, actually several books, but the one that I always refer to is Vitamin K2 and the Calcium Paradox, and I know it's been a popular book. It's [00:03:00] been around for some time and I've been in this industry nutrition industry since 1979. And I remember a couple decades at least of I don't even know if we had a product of vitamin K on the shelf. I kind of remember it coming on maybe twelve to fifteen years ago and you know, very little knowledge was known about it, but it is imperative. You know, I won't say that about all nutrients and I do believe we can get a lot, of course we can get a lot of things from our good food and healthy food, but vitamin k something I think is needs to be therapeutically looked at because I and I'm going to let you talk here in a minute. I promise. I did a cadaver lab about 20 years ago. I had someone invite me to a college so I got to in and see these three cadavers. They were all three older people, one man and two women and they let me do everything. I could hold every organ and touch everything [00:04:00] inside the body and I was totally fascinated like a kid in a candy store because I've studied health my entire life and I'm 63 now. And I'm always looking into why do we fall apart when we get older? How does this happen? And what can we do to help prevent it? Well, I remember 20 years ago. I would be squeezing these arteries, the kidney, the this, that ,and these people and they would crunch and so I asked the physician in charge afterwards I said, why is it just crunching because they're dried out? He said oh no. No, it's because calcium went to these places and they turned into a statue. Well, I've never stopped thinking about that from that moment. And vitamin K one of its roles, which I know you will explain all the roles is to hopefully slow this process down of calcification of the body. So I'm going to shut up here just a second and let you talk and inform people why we need to know and what and about taking vitamin K, please.
Dr. Kate: Well, it's very interesting. That was [00:05:00] one of your first experiences with calcification seeing that happen. And of course for a long time that calcification with age which just bought to be part and parcel of aging, but in fact that's not the case. You know, calcium is a double-edged sword. We need it to be in the body but we need it to be in the right places. We need it to be in our bones, and our teeth, and our circulating in our blood helps our muscles contract in our heart to beat, but unfortunately, it does have tendency to deposit in the wrong places and almost, you know can literally turn those places to stone or or to Bone really, you know, hardening of the arteries as we hear and that calcification can happen almost anywhere. But the body for this reason because this is tends to happen has a way of dealing with this and preventing that from happening and now that relies on a couple of factors, but the major factor seems to be a nutrient that was overlooked for so [00:06:00] long, which is why we didn't have very much information about this, which is a specific type of vitamin K called vitamin K2. And because of this, you know, because of it being misunderstood or overlooked for so long. This is one of the reasons why we didn't have products that contain it the way we do now and we didn’t really have any information. We had a lot of misinformation about it, but fortunately that is changing. And of course that's the reason why I wrote my book. And there are ways to get vitamin K2 this particular form back into our diets. And for some people who are prone to the problems that come along with vitamin K2 deficiency, then supplements are a wonderful option. We're really fortunate to have these. So I think that, you know, awareness around Vitamin K2 still needs to be increased especially among healthcare practitioners and it's a big missing piece to the puzzle for osteoporosis, heart disease, kidney disease, even sometimes [00:07:00] of cancer, It is implied oral and dental health for example, everything from tooth sensitivity to gum disease to weak teeth that are prone to developing cavities, and it has important implications for children's health as they're developing both in the womb as well as they grow up skeletal health. So it's really something that has been an important factor that we have overlooked.
Ed Jones: Wow. So you mentioned tooth and gum sensitivity? That was a new one on me. Dr. Kate: Yeah. They're now this one has not been established in the literature. This is anecdotal but you know time and time again, I hear from people. And it was my own experience that they had tooth sensitivity, which we know is very common. You see the commercials for sensitive toothpaste and these kinds of things and this seems to resolve when people start taking vitamin K2 or increase the intake of vitamin K2 and there's [00:08:00] a there's an important relationship of course with K2 and oral and dental health. So there aren't that many outward signs and symptoms of K2 deficiency because it's something that tends to affect us on the inside with things like problems with bone health and heart health, but tooth sensitivity is one of those things that continue to tip you off. As well many people increase their intake of vitamin K2 will begin to report that their teeth are cleaner that they're the plaque is coming off or the dental hygienist will say something that go you've been flossing more when they haven't it's just the body is up regulating its natural tooth cleaning process.
Ed Jones: Man. I love that because you I have seen that correlational with well, I've seen myself proved, but could not figure out what were what was I doing differently than I used to do so that's very interesting. Well, let's get to some of the important bullet points. I know people ask me constantly. Okay. First off, let's get out the conversation on drugs. We [00:09:00] tell people on Warfarin or Coumadin to not do this. Check with your doctor completely. We're not going to give you any advice that you should do this. I want that comment and secondly how about the other class of anticoagulants the Plavix is and all those types. What do people need to know about that?
Speaker 2: Oh great question. I'm glad you asked this up front. Sometimes this gets left at the end. So yes, the drug Warfarin that very popular blood thinner Warfarin does work by lowering vitamin K levels in the body. So any kind of case supplement for example can counteract that medication. So, you know either read my book or speak to a knowledgeable practitioner about that. All of the other blood so-called blood thinners, whether they work that way or not, in fact, we're inventing. And many of them to get around that particular mechanism. So things like Plavix, Xarelto, Pradaxa all of these work by a different mechanism and they don't interfere with vitamin [00:10:00] K in any way and the supplements won't interfere. So basically if you haven't been told to avoid green leafy vegetables by your doctor on your medication, then don't worry about you know, having vitamin K2 supplements. It's it won't interfere with your medicine.
Ed Jones: Lovely that you address that early and how about aspirin?
Dr. Kate: Yep. No same thing with Aspirin. It works by a different mechanism.
Ed Jones:Now second question is “oh I eat plenty of greens. Don't I get all the vitamin K I need? What about that?
Dr. Kate: So this is where the big area of misunderstanding came from and one of the reasons why vitamin K2 was overlooked for so long. And there's still a lot of confusion around this. So there the Vitamin K is actually a sitamins like the B vitamins but you can't say take some vitamin B because you have to say which one. Similarly with K, there. It is a family, but it's pretty simple for the most part. It's really just K1 and K2 vitamin K1 [00:11:00] is the one that's found in green leafy vegetables. It was discovered first researchers realized that it comes in green leafy vegetables and its main role is in blood clotting and it's almost impossible to be deficient in vitamin K1. You know, even if you eat the parsley on the side of your plate once in a blue moon, you're getting enough of that in your diet because the body recycles it. Vitamin K2 is quite different now early on researchers saw this K2 and they said maybe it's just another version of K1 we can ignore it, but it's not. It turns out vitamin K2 does not come from green leafy vegetables. It does not participate in blood clotting under normal circumstances. For people on Warfarin that's different question, but for everybody else it doesn't play a role there and it is possible to be deficient in vitamin K2. We don't recycle it. And so deficiency, in fact, studies have shown is quite common. Like we've heard with vitamin D, deficiency in vitamin K2 is a very common but [00:12:00] you wouldn't notice it because you don't notice if you know your bones are gradually losing density or calcium is gradually building up in your arteries. These kinds of things can progress for quite a long time before you notice. And so these are the big differences between K1 and K2 and this is why I K2 was misunderstood for so long.
Ed Jones: Interesting. And you know years ago I tell another quick story here Jack LaLanne. He was the absolute first Fitness Guru on TV. I remember watching him in the 1960s and he had these two German Shepherds that would sit next to him and he became an icon and I actually contacted him. It was probably 15 years ago. No, maybe no, about 12 to 13. I flew him here into my town and we had actually we partner with the hospital here, which was pretty cool that had never happened before. So we had Jack LaLanne come to the big mall here in town and he spoke in front of about [00:13:00] I'd say 500 people. What an inspiration he was 93 at the time and I asked him about his exercise program, of course and how he ate. Of course, I would do that and his supplement protocol. Well he had at the time. Time, you know doing more than almost anyone I had ever heard of because he took tons of supplements. He ate the really great diets and exercise every day, but he ended up dying about two to three years after leaving here. And guess what it was that killed him? It wasn't well known but it was the calcification of the heart. Well, I know what he was taking because he told me. Well he was doing a great program, but guess what was not in there? Vitamin K. None.
Dr. Kate: I can guess what he was taking. Yes. My guess is he was taking lots of vitamin D and no vitamin K.
Ed Jones: Yes, and that's a perfect entry into my next question. I know that you talk about and you write again Your book is the Vitamin K2 and the Calcium [00:14:00] Paradox how a little-known vitamin can save your life. We need to be considering how to dose K based on how we're dosing D. Is that correct?
Dr. Kate: Yes to a certain extent, you know, my heart goes out to Jack LaLanne because he was such an inspiration and I can't help but wonder how long he might have lived with some vitamin K2 and his diet because of course he wouldn't have had that information, but when it comes to vitamin D, which is very important we needed and we are all notoriously low in that vitamin D will make us absorb calcium. That's one of the things it does for us. And it will make us continue to absorb calcium with no limit and that calcium has to go somewhere. So in the absence of vitamin K2 the calcium can begin to deposit in places it shouldn't like the heart, and the arteries, and the kidneys. And so for people who are taking high-dose vitamin D I really feel like people taking any amount of vitamin D. [00:15:00] But especially the higher dose vitamin D. You absolutely want to have vitamin K2 with it to make sure the calcium that you're absorbing is going to the right places and that's what will protect you from inappropriate calcification that can come along with vitamin D.
Ed Jones: Interesting. Well, I know at least from my vantage point here when I'm speaking to people or counseling them a clients and is I'm not going to throw out a specific numbers, but let's basically say a great company like Natural Factors who would be making the right kind of vitamin K, I will tell them for every three to five thousand unit of D I want you to take one of these capsules or tablets of this Vitamin K. Is that kind of in the ballpark?
Dr. Kate: Yeah, I would say that's in the ballpark, you know, the nutrients unfortunately are studied at this point typically an isolation and in not look at ratios, but a ratio, there's got to be one out there and that you know, I use [00:16:00] I think that's in the ballpark. Sometimes I will say as much as one per thousand I use of D, or you can go higher. I think that the main thing is as long as you have some K2 there with your D and if you're taking you know, very high doses of Vitamin D then more K2, but I like the ratio you're using the recommendation you're giving.
Ed Jones: And is there a side effect if I take too much vitamin K?
Dr Kate : No, it has no side effect. In fact, it was for some individuals very rare I have not had anybody report this to me directly, but I've read about it in the literature. Some people taking very high doses may have stomach upset but there isn't necessarily a need to take extremely high doses. Not you know necessarily that we always think of a little is good and more is better and although vitamin K has been studied a K2 particular has been studied at very high doses and shown to be non-toxic. It looks like you know about 500 micrograms [00:17:00] of something called the MK-7 formats a fermented form will probably cover, you know, most people in their health concerns.
Ed Jones: And the question that I guess is one of the more common ones is that people come in and ask me and for some reason it still plugs into my brain when I start thinking about increasing my levels, which is well, and I know why they ask this question. It's just easy to explain but it still kind of sticks in people which is “Vitamin K thickens blood, doesn't it?” Well, you know, if you start thinking about that, you would not want to take something that thick in your blood now. It doesn't thicken your blood. I know that but to tell people perhaps that that's not a danger and why that concept kind of is still floating around.
Dr. Kate: That's a very good point and it actually comes from I think a little bit the concept of the mechanism of how Warfarin works. So if Warfarin is creating a vitamin K deficiency in your body, which by the way over the long term will give you side effects [00:18:00] like calcification of the arteries, but if that's thinning your blood then doesn't vitamin K in any form thicken your blood and the fact is that under normal circumstances almost all of our blood clotting proteins are activated with you know, they're they're appropriate form of vitamin K to keep them clotted. You really can't shift that or leads. If not, you'd see people having strokes and heart attacks after, say eating a salad. That doesn't happen. So you don't have to worry about that.
Ed Jones: That's great to hear because just hearing it makes people feel better. If this be from an authority like yourself, I know that Dr. Mercola has written extensively about vitamin K because he is a huge believer and I think he's had you I actually interviewed on his podcast which I remember listening to and I just loved it. He does reference and I'm sure like you do in the book that you know vitamin K. Not only can potentially prevent [00:19:00] arterial calcification, but even varicose veins osteoporosis. There's some good studies on reducing the chance of certain cancers with vitamin K, like prostate and even down to the brain health problems including dementia. Vitamin K has a myriad of positive effects with literally negligible negative effects. It's you know, not everything in the world of nutrition has that I mean vitamin A can be toxic, vitamin D and the too much can you know do lay down calcium and the wrong places but K is so safe. It's relatively inexpensive. Anybody over 50 that I talked to I say when they say what absolutes do I need and I'll go through what I call the Core 4: which I’ve spoke of plenty of times which includes the right multivitamin, the right Omega-3s, vitamin D, probiotics, and a green drink. A green drink like Natural Factors is one of them that makes one of my favorites. When you [00:20:00] include these things you're getting a good basic supply of vitamin K. I still believe in doing more but at least they're getting more than 95% of the people probably in our society is getting at this point.
And you know it with foods, I know that again we can get the K1 from kale, spinach, collard greens, and broccoli, and brussel sprouts, but we want the K2 along with it. And because my one of my biggest, as I spoke earlier, because I actually visualized what it looks like to be an 80 year old who turned to a calcium statue. There's I mean it's almost like, how did they make it to that age? When I saw the calcification of practically their entire organs and the lack of blood flow that had to be occurring because all this calcium went to the wrong places. It left their bones and it and also from the foods. They were eating, and the supplements, they just were being shuttled to the wrong places. It’s like getting on the subway and you got on the wrong subway you're going to get [00:21:00] off and I'm sorry you're going to be lost and that's what's happened to this calcium. It isn't that hard to fix it. And I do want to plug my own personal thing and I'm sure you're totally in agreement, magnesium needs to be part of this conversation to prevent calcium. So so, you know, that's the other thing that keeps calcium in solution. So I'm a huge fan of the right magnesium, not oxide, but some of the better forms with the K for long-term prevention. Because I'm at a stage and stage of my life. You know, I'm in the fourth quarter of life. Yeah. I don't know I realized early on I don't want to wait for a symptom to pop up and then say, oh, let me try to fix it. No, it's a lot easier to keep the horse in the barn than it is to go round them up by leaving the gate open. So let's keep it really steady. Really functional. Build our health for the future including anything that comes our way not only calcification but infections and viruses and all the things that come with living. We have lost a trust in our innate [00:22:00] power of healing. Part of that is because it's as you I'm sure are fully realize is you know disease is a very profitable business, and there's not bad people out there, but there's broken systems and and people who have to work in broken systems have to play the game. Well, I don't have to do that and I'm too outspoken at my age. So I don't really give a crap what anybody else thinks about it, but I know from watching 41 years of people we know we can turn on a Powerhouse of Nature's Pharmacy within us but we have to do the right things. We have to put together a plan and having people like yourself is what I call the team approach. Everyone has to have sources of information that they trust and follow it. And today we have so much input of information. You can't just Google anymore. You have to find your trusted team partners. And The Holistic Navigator’s a team partner, and I know that when [00:23:00] people hear me that trust me, then you become their trusted partner because you're my friend now and I trust you. So anything else you'd like to leave people with about advice on this vitamin K before we end?
Dr. Kate: Well, you know, first of all, I'd like to say thanks for raising awareness around this nutrient as I know you've been doing, you know previous to our discussion and again today because it is that missing piece to the puzzle for health concerns for so many different people. It's a nutrient that used to be abundant in our diets and because of changes in the way we produce food, the way we raise animals for example and farming etc. it has all but disappeared. But we can get it. Back through specific food choices and supplements and that can make a great difference in health over the short and even more importantly over the long term.
Ed Jones: Absolutely. And you know a lot of things in nutrition that we've all come across it that's great importance, but I really rate vitamin K at near [00:24:00] the top of the list for those of us who are 40 plus not even 50 plus but 40-plus because again prevention is the key. Because you're not going to probably clean out all that calcium people. Once it's all built up and blocking blood flow. And so prevention is easy, safe, and inexpensive and again your book which is the Vitamin K2 and the Calcium Paradox is an amazing, amazing book. I'm going to actually order some more of those to give out to some of the health practitioners in this area because you know, there are sorely lacking of information because they don't learn this in school. You learned it in school, but then you followed up even more so and did Our own individual Journey on this topic. I know because I can tell about how your book was written that you did that. So, you know what? Just fabulous. I'm so excited that I finally got to talk to Dr. Kate Rhéaume. And I want people to buy your book and I want [00:25:00] them to learn what they need to learn. So thank you for joining me on The Holistic Navigator.
Dr. Kate: You're welcome. It's been such a pleasure and I really appreciate your kind words about my work as well as raising awareness about this important nutrient.
Ed Jones: Well and you deserve it and welcomed everybody to this information. I really hope you can take it to heart. If you're younger and you have parents, grandparents, please encourage them to consider a basic protocol and program of what we call the Core 4: the right multivitamin, the right green drink, the omega-3, and make sure if the multivitamin doesn't contain really good amounts of K, that you purchase a separate Vitamin K to go along with the vitamin D. That's also in the program and any questions you can send it to The Holistic Navigator. Again, we do not treat medical conditions. We're not you're going to be your physician. Check with your doctor if you have you know, certain being treated for certain things, you know, use this information. Run it past [00:26:00] them and if you get their approval and feel comfortable, then you jump on it.
And I always loved Hippocrates love looking through his health quotes because there are so appropriate even today after over 500 years later, “Illnesses do not come upon us out of the blue. They are developed from tiny daily sins against nature. When enough sends have accumulated illnesses will suddenly appear.” How true is that? Thank you everyone for listening to The Holistic Navigator. Until next time stay safe, stay calm and be well. Thank you.
Brian Strickland: The information on this podcast in the topics discussed [00:45:01] have not been evaluated by the FDA or any one of the medical profession and is not aimed to replace any advice you may receive from your medical practitioner. The Holistic Navigator assumes no responsibility or liability whatsoever on behalf of any purchaser or listener of these materials. The Holistic Navigator is not a doctor or doesn't claim to be please consult your physician before beginning any health regimen.