The Power of Quercetin in Combatting Illness
In light of a new variant and possible new waves of pandemic illness, we always want to be proactive and do what we can to provide information to help people combat illness naturally. We’re thrilled to have Dr. Robert Rountree back on the show to walk us through his favorite supplements, backed by science of course, to help keep illness at bay. This episode is quite literally an A-Z look at what you need to give your body the best shot at staying well naturally.
Meet Dr. Robert Rountree:
On this week’s episode we welcome back Dr. Robert Rountree to talk about his favorite supplements that EVERYONE should be taking to help combat illness. Dr. Rountree is a practicing physician out of Boulder, CO and is Chief Medical Officer for THORNE® and he breaks down the essential vitamins and nutrients he takes on a daily basis, gives suggestions for dosing, and even throws in a couple extra products that might not be on your radar.
Some Points We Discuss:
What nutrients should someone consider as they want to build their immune system? (5:53)
What are some of the most important things to know about vitamin D supplementation? (21:03)
What makes quercetin so unique for immune health? (40:24)
Some Key Takeaways From This Episode:
The alphabet list is not necessarily particular to any virus or illness. This is great for the immune system in general. (10:37)
Always choose methylated B vitamins over folic acid. (16:59)
There’s a delayed effect with Vitamin D. You don’t see the impact immediately. (26:44)
Quercetin can stabilize immune cells and prevent the production of histamine. (41:25)
Products + Resources:
Get Social with Dr. Rountree:
Website: thorne.com
CLICK HERE FOR THE FULL SHOW TRANSCRIPT
Brian Strickland 00:18 Hey everyone welcome back to the holistic navigator podcast where we believe in the body's capacity for self healing, if it's given the proper nutrients and care deserves my name is Brian Strickland. I'm the producer of the show, and I'm joined in the studio today, as always by Ed Jones. And on this week's episode, we welcome back Dr. Robert Rountree to talk about his favorite supplements that everyone should be taking to help combat illness. Dr. Rountree is a practicing physician out of Boulder, Colorado, and he is the Chief Medical Officer for Thorne. And we wanted to take a look at some of his favorite supplements plus one in particular, and that is quercetin. Quercetin is a powerful nutrients that really everyone can benefit from. So we wanted to take an in depth look at that today. We've got a ton to cover today. This is a great episode. And if you're curious about where to start, or how to combat illness than this really is the show for you. So with that being said, let's go ahead and get this episode started. Here's your host, Mr. Ed Jones.
Ed Jones 01:33 Thank you, Brian, very much for that. And, and again, we are here. This is Ed Jones with the holistic navigator. And you know, we're up to past 100 podcasts now. And it's something I truly, truly wake up in the morning and look forward so much to do these expecially when I'm talking to someone who is a storehouse of not only knowledge, but experience. And you know, I've learned through all my years, I'm 64. Now, there is a difference between knowledge and wisdom. And I am very much invested in wise people. That doesn't mean they always have to have degrees on the wall. But I really like people who have both a lot of school study and practice and also wisdom. And today, we're going to go back into a kind of a review of a podcast we had last year on the immune system and how to empower it in a quick mode and fashion if we needed. And the gentlemen I've known him for many many years, spoke to him on several occasions met him a couple times, Dr. Robert Rountree. Welcome to the holistic navigator.
Dr. Rountree 02:45 Hey, great to be back on again.
Ed Jones 02:48 You did such a phenomenal job last and I don't know for sure the date. But last year, probably in about May. We went through a list of what does a person need to basically have as their toolkit ready to roll if they get what I call under the weather. And we're not going to use any specific names of any conditions. But if someone wants to very quickly empower their immune system, that's what we're going to talk about today, because that was the focus last year, I had you and only one other physician during that craziness of last year. And both of you were lifesavers. I know for a fact because we share this throughout our city throughout our state throughout the United States. And because we were in the top 1% of health podcast globally, I know it was shared outside of our borders, and knowledge is power. And there's so much fake news out there regarding everything, including nutrition, and I am a person who won't put up with that I want the nitty gritty, I want the absolute truth. Some things we won't know. Absolutely. But I'm always going to find the clearest source of truth or is and with you, Dr. Roundtree, I trust you completely if if I had a health issue, and I don't trust most people in the medical field, but I would certainly bow down to whatever good advice you would give me. So today was very fun to use. And well, you know, the system that the traditional medical system is wonderful for acute care emergencies. You know, I'm in a car wreck, Hey, I just bought me a electric bike like two weeks ago, if I fall on that thing, hey, I'm not going to my nutrition store or some herbalist. I'm going to someone in the traditional medical facilities to patch me up their miraculous heart attacks and urgent cares. But when it comes to things like immune system and chronic diseases and an aging they don't have a toolbox it contains hardly anything you have filled your toolbox. In fact, you know You graduated in 1980, from the North Carolina School of Medicine, and Lille Chapel Hill and you have pursued, you're on board writing on the holistic medicine, extensive postgraduate studies in nutrition, herbal pharmacology, author of several books, I love the title of one of those revolutionary way to fight infection, beat chronic illness and stay well. So you are a an encyclopedia, there's no doubt. Well, I know last year, again, we're talking about an immune system that if someone's listening, hey, I need to activate it. Not next week. I'm trying to activate it today. And we know that that there's a lot of drugs are prescribed in traditional medicine, none of these stimulate immune systems, they may actually weaken it because they're wanting to not have a response we're talking about. We're wanting to make this as robust, resilient military within us we have a natural pharmacy within us. I want to know from you as as you told last year, but maybe with some tweaking, what nutrients should someone consider if they are ready for battle?
Dr. Rountree 06:09 Okay. Sure enough, that's a that's really one of my favorite topics. I have to say that many years ago, I was involved in some lobbying organizations for the for herbal medicine. And I got interviewed by some national media, asking me well, did I think this is the future of medicine? And I said, Well, absolutely. You know, the, the, the evidence is there, it's herbal medicine to say nutritional medicine is safe. I think this is going to take over medicine in this country. And I hate to say it didn't happen. And I mean, it's gotten more popular than ever, right? Like millions and millions of people are taking supplements, doing things on their own. But what I thought was going to happen is that mainstream medicine would look at the data, and based on the evidence alone, would say, Hey, this is it. This is how we ought to be practicing medicine. So I never really seen, the kind of stuff we're talking about is fringe medicine. I always just thought it was good science. And so everything I want to talk about is basically oriented around what what are the studies show, right? And what the study show is that they don't really, that stimulate the immune system probably isn't a word we want to use. And the reason I say that is because on the label of a lot of supplements, like Melatonin is a really good example. It says, don't take it, you have an autoimmune disease. You know, and and the reason they say that is because they think it stimulates the immune system. And the the misunderstanding about that is that the immune system is one thing that you talked about it being military, but it's a military with many different branches, right? There's an Army and the Navy, Navy, Marines, and you know, there's the Air Force, all these different divisions, and they talk to each other, they communicate with each other, but they all have different tasks and different focuses, etc. And so the idea that one thing like melatonin can stimulate the whole immune system, and suddenly cause it to attack the body. I hate to say I think it's nonsense. In fact, I have given melatonin which is a great an immune regulator, that's a word I like to use. It's an immune optimizer. And it enhances resilience is a word you use. That's a, that's a word that we're all kind of going for these days is how do you how do you get your immune system resilient? And how do you do it comes in a fairly short period of time. Now, my hope is that maybe people will listen to this and say, perhaps I shouldn't wait until I'm short of breath, and then reach for some vitamin D. Right?
Ed Jones 09:07 Correct. And that is what has happened to many people, you know, you wake up, or you're a Saturday afternoon and all of a sudden, you're like, what's going on? I'm feeling pretty bad right now. Well, Okay, you're gonna hang out a little bit and then by the time nightfall you realize I'm really starting to get sick. You can't really think clearly, you're may have a temperature, you can't get someone to go to the store, accumulate all the things that you really didn't weren't prepared to do. So yes, wow, this list that you're going to give will be the very concise, extremely safe, and I love the fact that you said earlier, and I was the same way in regard to thinking that that evidence would convince more of the traditional practitioners to embrace what we are now have enough evidence to support which we didn't have Long time ago, you and I both knew that it was a lot more guesswork a lot more of hopefulness, well, we have it now, you can look at PubMed for anything and see the massive amounts of background. And it didn't happen. Now COVID has turned the corner of individuals that I have seen so many people that it did open their eyes to at least that particular conversation, that we know what being unhealthy is really unsafe. And maybe we could eat healthier, exercise more and embrace certain nutrients. So on that list, I know earlier last year, you kind of went through the alphabet with that list.
Dr. Rountree 10:37 Yeah, called the alphabet list. And, and the thing that I have to say is that this is not that specific to any particular virus or any particular infection. Right, right. So our immune system can use this kind of nutritional support, whatever you're talking about.
Ed Jones 10:58 Yeah, whatever. Again, and you're right, this is nothing specific for any disease at all. We're talking, we're trying to make that natural pharmacy within and that military of all the branches of the military act, were appropriately and be resilient.
Dr. Rountree 11:15 Yep. Yep. So I mean, one way to think about the immune system is that it your immune cells are like any other cell in your body, they need basic nutrients. And if you're deprived of those basic nutrients, which is not that hard to do, when you're eating the standard American diet, the SAD diet, if you're eating that kind of diet, or eating a lot of processed foods, then you can very easily miss out on getting the most fundamental nutrients. And so, you know, when we talk about nutrients that support optimized immune system induced resiliency, we're not necessarily talking about really esoteric things, right? We're talking about the alphabet. That's ABC, right? A, B, C, D, A, B, C, D, E, right? Every single one of those is good. So I, I think the important thing is for people to make sure they're taken enough of it. So I mean, vitamin A, is a really good place to start. You know, vitamin A is really, it gets no respect. First of all, people have this idea that if I eat a carrot, every day, I'm getting plenty of vitamin A, well, you're not, that's pro vitamin A. Right, beta carotene, beta carotene is fine. But you really need that whole range of carotenoids, you know, lycopene, etc. And here's the big problem, there's a genetic variation in a huge percentage of the population that keeps them from converting pro vitamin A beta carotene into real vitamin A, which is retinol. Right? The real vitamin A, that's what you get in an animal food. So it's, it's not that easy to get it. If you're vegetarian. Right, you know, your best, your only option is just to eat a lot more beta carotene and hope you don't have a genetic variant. But for the rest of us, we really need the pre what's called pre formed vitamin a. Right. And the reason that it doesn't get respect is because some studies came out a few years back, suggesting that too much vitamin A might cause osteoporosis might be a problem. Well, we certainly know you can overdose on vitamin A, there's no question that can give you brain swelling, headaches, liver swelling, but you know, that's for people that are eating polar bear liver. Right? So you really got to do I take a lot of it. Now, I feel very comfortable telling people to stick around the range of 10 to 20,000 international units a day. And that really is enough to help regulate the immune system optimize the immune system. But, you know, and I haven't really seen toxicity from it. I've got a lot of people on it. I measured blood levels, so can be careful. I haven't seen a downside in that range. Right. So, again, I always start with a I think a lot of people need it. A lot of people are deficient in it, and it helps regulate the immune system. And one way it does that is it actually improves tolerance. So I give it a lot to people who are at risk of having their immune system turned back on themselves what we call auto immune disease. It's not the cure, right? It's not like here's the person with an autoimmune disease. They take a and it's gonna magically melt away, but it does help cool off the immune system. So it becomes more more tolerant.
Ed Jones 15:01 And you know, Dr. Rountree that when you and I spoke last year, and I've done a tremendous amount of writings on all topics, and just because I've done this for four plus decades, I do have a pretty decent following. And one of the papers, the main one that I actually came up with, which was ideas and suggestions for a quick acting protocol for the immune system. I did not have vitamin A on that until I talked to you and I, you know, I was in that world to have, you know, the Accutane world of oh my gosh, you know, the synthetic version, look at all the side effects. And it kind of kind of got in me a little bit. So I was kind of always shying away after your podcast with me on the illicit navigator last year, I really dug into it, and we have to have, or for short a vitamin A, it's going to affect one the lungs very significantly. And that is a real key piece to this, this quick acting thing. And again, we're talking about vitamin A, in a quick sense, no one's going to have a side effect in six days. Because generally between five and 10 days is the length of time you'll take this relatively high dose so you're talking to about 20,000 units of the real fish liver oil, vitamin A, not beta carotene. Yeah, exactly. Perfect. Well, how about how about vitamin D? Where are we go with that now?
Dr. Rountree 16:19 So d, and just because we're going through the alphabet, there's the B vitamins, okay, let's do that. You don't, you don't need a lot, but just a good basic B complex, you know, that's got the active forms of the of all the bees in there. And again, I'm the way I'm framing this is your immune systems or your immune cells are like any other cell in the body, right? They need all the nutrients right just to function they need those nutrients and a lot of people are under dose on these things are not getting enough through their food. So a B complex for everybody the vitamin A for everybody, vitamin C.
Ed Jones 16:59 Well, before you before you go the vitamin C, I, you just reminded me that last year, you all we also did another podcast. I'm not 100% sure with you that you talked about MTHFR and how people with this gene defect should not use folic acid, the synthetic version. And so you made just a great point that this be complex, it the right ones would have folate, not the inexpensive, cheap ones don't. And so yes, again, like the vitamin A story the devils in the details is tweak it and let's make it really work. So yes, a B complex that has a natural form of folate, not the synthetic folic acid.
Dr. Rountree 17:37 Yeah, I take the methyl folate, myself because I have that genetic. I like to call it a variant rather than a defect that sounds a little bit more pleasant. But I do have that MTHFR variant. And I do tend to have a little higher than normal homocysteine as a result. And you know, we, we haven't done a lot of research on this. But there's evidence to think that a high homocysteine is toxic to the immune system, right? High homocysteine is a toxin. So you know that again, it stands to reason that you'd want to go with that methyl folate. Some people say to me, Well, I feel a little irritable when I take methyl folate, don't worry about it doesn't mean anything is wrong. It just means that you need to back off on the dose, maybe do it every other day until your system adjust to it. And I've had, I've gone through this with countless patients, right, who had to adjust a little bit when they first started doing it they, you know, I think of it is like you needed this supplement, you started taking it, suddenly, you're feeling really good. And your body doesn't know what to do with that sensation.
Ed Jones 18:47 Exactly. And you know what, you you explained it so well on that previous podcast on methylation. So if you go back to the holistic navigator, you can actually Google it and put the word methylation, your lecture will pop up. So that will give people the further details if they want to pursue that. And so I love that advice. So we're talking alphabet again, you got we got the D, what's next? I guess we would again?
Dr. Rountree 19:11 Yeah, we go with vitamin C. You know, I certainly think it's one of the the old standards. And you know, most everybody should benefit from at least 500 milligrams a day. Right? Some people can take several 1000 milligrams a day that doesn't upset their stomach or caused loose stools or anything like that. So that's, that's fine. I'm, I'm a little more of a minor. I don't use the huge doses like I used to because I'm doing the whole alphabet. And I think when you're mixing them all together, you don't necessarily need you know, 10 grams of vitamin C every single day even though that was the range that Linus Pauling talked about. And, you know, I do respect Dr. Pauling's work I think an interesting thing about mine to see is when given intravenously and high doses, and we're talking 25 grams. It actually increases free radicals in your in your bloodstream. And that increase in free radicals actually kills off viruses. Mm hmm. So it can be very helpful for certain viral infections. And again, not making any health claims, and things like that. But, you know, nowadays, there's dry the drip centers that seemed like they're opening up on every corner, every street corner. Yes, they are. You're in Chattanooga, right?
Ed Jones 20:42 Right and we have one right down the actual street from our Wellness Center, and I go do the glutathione and vitamin C on a regular basis. And now on my on the quick acting immune under the weather protocol. I'm kind of saying, you know, if we can do some vitamin C, about every three hours, again, we're only talking five to eight days. Does that sound reasonable?
Dr. Rountree 21:03 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So for preventive purposes, 500 to 1000. Right. But if you start to feel under the weather, as you say, and it doesn't hurt to take it all day long, you know, the biggest issue with it is that it's not in your system very long. So, you know, taking in every few hours, as much as you can take up to the point of getting loose stools, well, that's certainly fine. And definitely part of my protocol. I do think that if you have access to a place that gets IV, vitamin C and I doses, that that's what I do personally, and I've done many times, you know, if I start to feel like something's not quite right, um, well, head on in and, and and get that IV, it's, it can be quite amazing. Actually. I go, yeah. So the preventive dose, then a higher dose, if you start to feel like you're coming down with something, and then the super high dose, if you go, Well, I really need to turn this around. So that's, that's a, b, c. D, everybody's heard of vitamin D. I mean, when it was interesting, because I've been lecturing on vitamin D for 25 years. Right. Wow. You know, I met Dr. Michael Holick, who was, you know, I think Boston University, who's one of the top vitamin D researchers, he discovered the active form of vitamin D, the 125, dihydroxy. D, he discovered that. And you know, of course, you've got mainstream doctors saying, Well, Michael holics, a quack, I'm like, well, the guy wrote the review article on vitamin D for the New England Journal of Medicine. I think, I don't know how you can say this guy doesn't know what he's talking about. Because he really understands the chemistry of it. And he basically says, Look, you're not going to get toxic if you're taking two to 5000 a day. Right. And I think most everybody can benefit from taking two to 5000 a day. Maybe if you're a lifeguard in Australia, maybe you don't need that much. If you're laying out, you know, in your, if you live in a warm area, and you lay out in your backyard and your thong every day. Well, I wouldn't be worried about getting skin cancer, if that was the case, but I'm not going to be so much worried about your vitamin D levels. But for the rest of us. You know, I, I go out live in Colorado, I go hiking up to 11,000 feet every week. And you think I'm getting plenty of vitamin D, but I don't, I don't like all that sun exposure. I wear a big hat, long sleeve shirt. You know, I really tried to protect my skin because I'm not getting any younger. So I can't count on the sun to give me that vitamin D. Right, and I take 5000 a day. And I've checked my levels to 25 hydroxy D level, that's what you want to check. And 5000 a day just barely keeps me into the healthy range.
Ed Jones 24:23 Well, I know with myself, we have a lab here and I've done so much testing. And I have to do about actually 14,000 units a day to maintain about a 54 nanograms per milliliter which is I wouldn't be above 50. And I think you would agree. And I do it food with fat first thing in the morning. But yeah, again, if and that score. I think everyone needs to get blood tests. I think Dr. Holick should have a Nobel Peace Prize, win a metal because that his information started all of us down this path of, of I remember the day where I mean my nutrition store might have had to brands have vitamin D, and there were 400 units apiece, and we sold very few of them. Because no one recognized it, everyone thought it could be dangerous in high amounts. Well, now we know that every disease of chronic aging might have a relationship to being low in vitamin D, but especially falling prey to really aggressive infections. And that's why I really like it when recommendations are made, and which I know you do, and you will do on really hot dosing for a period of five to eight days. And so what would that be if they're trying to optimize their immune system on the quick run?
Dr. Rountree 25:37 Okay, so first few things to know is like, if you're already taking some D, one to 5000 a day, and you have an okay, level of D, that's not it's a higher end of the range. There is suggestive evidence, I should say that taking super high doses of D for several days. And I'm deliberately vague about the several days, right, is it two days, three days? You know, how long is it? Is it five days, I tend to end up with around three days for most people have somewhere between 50 and 100,000 a day, depending on what their overall health status is, what the need is. Now I've actually asked Dr. Holick, about this. And he what he says is, well, I can't officially tell you how effective that's going to be. But I can't tell you it's safe. Really. So the you know, word from the horse's mouth is? Well, you know, I'm giving people 100,000 units for three days. Well, there are medical studies where they gave people those kinds of doses. Right. So there, it's not unheard of now, there was a study, a COVID study that I think was done, it might have been done in Latin America, where they gave people like single dose of high dose vitamin D. And I didn't do anything. And I thought, well, of course, some of you got to be aware of is that when you're taking the vitamin D supplement form, it takes a day or two, before the body converts it into the 125 active form. It's the 125 that actually gets the immune cells going. So it doesn't work overnight. Right, it takes up, there's a delayed effect with with vitamin D. And so I generally end up with about a three day dosing regimen, you know, three days super high dose never seen toxicity with it. And, you know, I can't tell you there's published studies on it at all, I can just tell you that I know a lot of practitioners that have followed that protocol for decades. And done that. And my general impression is that, you know, it helps.
Ed Jones 28:04 Well, and the thing is, and I appreciate so much your your wisdom on this, because, you know, we are in a crazy world and there's so much censorship going on. And one of the things that have been censored is the current state of affairs as far as PubMed research on vitamin D, and some of the, you know, infections going around, we will say, and it's it's, it's criminal to me that that is happening, because one is it's so extremely safe. It's so inexpensive. We know darker skinned people have lower levels, we know that darker skinned people are dying at a much higher rate than people who have a lighter skin because lighter skin makes more vitamin D. It doesn't take 14 degrees on the wall to have common sense you can have common sense and, and not have any degrees. And we we've lost this in some of this thinking, of course, there's agendas that who knows where and what they are, we don't get into that. I want to say real quickly that we gotta move on down the list. I will tell you that I had a client once and make this really short. It was about 65 year old gentleman. He actually had been diagnosed with multiple myeloma been a client of mine for 25 years. He comes in, and I get to talk to him and I recommend a few things for his immune system. And I say to him, I would like for your vitamin D to get go up real quickly. So I gave him about a 50,000 unit of vitamin D 12 pills that's always in the bottle. And he and I said I'd like you to take this once a day for 12 days, because I wanted to hurry it up. Well guess what happened? I didn't see this man for one straight year, just because of coincidence. He would come into our center and talk to other people. After about 12 months I ran into him. I said, So tell me what's going on. He said, man, my my cancer is just stable. It hadn't got any worse than docs are shocked. And I said, Well, what do you what are you taking? So I'm still doing the mushrooms and I'm doing and I said well, how about the D said I'm still taking it. I said how would you switch to he said didn't switch to anything, I've been buying the 50,000 unit, I said, what you've been paying 50,000 units a day for over a year. And he would not get a blood test. He, he went off of it. And a year and a half later, he died. Now he was totally stable for all 14 months, totally stable, that it was like a miracle. Not saying it was the day, but there's still some, some evidence in that whole story that presents itself to me very strongly. So we got the A, the B, the C, the D, next?
Dr. Rountree 30:34 And they'll go hand in, right. So the A and the D, really go well together. They're synergistic with each other. Now, I don't tend to, you know, bump up the dose of the A, like I do with the D. But here's the deal with the D for infection is the vitamin D activates a system. In in. It's not just the immune system, but it's in the body, called the antimicrobial peptide system, that a MP system. These are naturally occurring antibiotics that are antiviral, antibacterial, and antifungal. But one of the best known ones is called fella side and the other one is called defensive. And so the rationale behind this extra dose of vitamin D, it's not magic, right? All it's doing is activating this system that is partly produced by immune cells and also by cells that line, the respiratory tract and the GI tract. And it's telling them to ramp up production of these antimicrobial peptides. That was the that they didn't know that that that was probably why it worked to take people with to TB and send them to Kellogg Sanitarium and have them set out on the deck every day because that the vitamin D they're getting from the sun is stimulating antimicrobial peptides, which killed tuberculosis. Wow, what? So, this antimicrobial peptide thing? I'll tell you, the pharmaceutical companies are trying to figure out how do we make those guys, right? We want to make them because they're, they're very, very powerful, and they're non toxic. But the best way we know to boost production to them is with vitamin D. And vitamin A, I think helps as well. And I've also seen studies on curcumin, which is my favorite herb, you know, especially the curcumin phytsome, which is in the sunflower lecithin form, that's a that's an erg. You know, it's not part of their your alphabet here, but it's certainly something that complements all of this. So we've got a B, C, D. And then let's let's jump to the n, which was in acetyl cysteine. One of my all time favorite nutrients, best way to put it, it's an acetyl cysteine is a slightly modified form of a naturally occurring amino acid cysteine. Now, the reason cysteine is so important is because it is the rate limiting precursor to making glutathione. So glutathione is the most important antioxidant in the body. And it's made of three basic nutrients cysteine, glutamine and glycine right, we generally got enough of the glutamine the glycine around book, The cysteine can be in short supply and so when you add in acetyl cysteine it increases glutathione in the body and glutathione has antiviral effects and it helps neutralize free radicals so it's it's a great anti inflammatory, I would say in a sea in a dose of somewhere between 500-3000 a day has been on my a list of supplements for 30 years. And and I found out about it because we were trained to use it in medical school. What do we use it for? We use it for a centimeter an overdose. So for person overdoses on a Saturday and then what happens is the liver uses up all this glutathione and the sediment often ends up being converted into this highly toxic compound that will basically melt the liver in one or two days. So you know as probably the worst way for a person to try to do themselves in is to eat a bottle of instead of being a fan because it's a bad way to go. I mean it rots the liver personally gets really sick, it's not pleasant. And it's been standard of care and hospital emergency care units for as long as I can remember to give them NAC.
Ed Jones 35:12 I love that and you know the fact that we still hear articles every single day suppose it experts say you know if you're feeling under the weather take some Tylenol. No, that does not make sense because glutathione and that's what we needed to fight the battle but yet they're still saying Tylenol, Tylenol. And you know, NAC if if people are listening, a lot of them are very well schooled in this world of nutrition and holistic, you know, the FDA is attempting to make it prescription Why is not because of any risk is because of agendas of profit. And we you know, the nutrition industry sold it for decades. Now, just to make a segue into this. Again, I want people to know that we have to find also brands that we trust. And I've been in this industry for over 40 years. And there, it's not like you're going to have any poison from a cheap brand. But you're not going to get the benefit because it's not made of quality origin. And I'm really encouraging people to stock up on NAC I know you know, the holistic Navigator is sponsored by nutrition w.com, who has the services to to expedite any shipping anywhere in the United States. And they also pack everything for $1 you get a cold packs, because in summer, I've always been concerned about this Amazon crap because they'll send it out. And these are sometimes perishable nutrients, they sit on the UPS truck, which when you Google it, they get up to 145 degrees that can destroy it. So nutrition w.com has all of the leading brands, they vet everything. And I will put a plug in for Thorne thorns, one of the most highly consistent, scientifically backed, pharmaceutical level type of company, and I just love the fact that they put all of their whole kit in to make the very, very best of everything. So just want to put a plug in for them in regard to this. So yes, Nic I take it daily for prevention, but when I got under the weather, and I have to thank you Dr. Roundtree because I got again, we'll call it under weather last year after your podcast, I had gone on mo one vacation a year went to Florida. And before I left, I thought, hmm, you know what, I'm not gonna be able to find the stuff I want down there. So I better packed my little under the weather toolkit. I did put it in a separate sack, I get down there the very first night on there, I'll wake up with a cough that I had never experienced in my whole life. So the next morning, I wake up, you know what I take, I start taking all the goodies that you spoke about at the correct doses. And the next day, I was 50% better. The third day, I was like, Okay, I'm tired. I never got tested, came back. And I had about three weeks of fatigue. But then the lab that we have here locally said hey, we got a new test for antibodies, I get tested the call back and said you have the highest antibodies so far that we have ever tested for you know, and I was like thank you Dr. Roundtree, because I had your toolkit in my bag and started it. And I had, you know, two and a half kind of crappy days and just fatigue for a few weeks. So it worked. It worked for me and NAC was a huge part of that. So yes, was a we've covered the NAC. What would be the next alphabet?
Dr. Rountree 38:36 And I gotta say there are published studies on NAC. That for its anti viral effects for helping people who are under the weather. So it's not the it's not just for sediment and toxicity, right? It's not it's other big use is for treating thick mucus and people that have cystic fibrosis. Yes, it's actually the brand name of it just Muco mist, and it can be used as an inhaler. And I've done this you can actually buy the liquid, it's a prescription. So doctor has to get it for you. But you can get it in a prescription and put it in a asthma inhaler, nebulizer. Right. And you can breathe it in and they see works directly in the lungs. So, so it's not just for support in the liver. It's a mucus spinner. It's an antiviral, it's a pretty remarkable thing. And yeah, if you ever feel so inclined to call the FDA and say please do not take this off the market. There's no toxicity, it's inexpensive. It's a readily available substance to help anybody and everybody who's under the weather and you know the only motivation I can see from him taking off the market is so that instead of the cost and pennies the capsule, it can now cost several dollars a capsule and No one company will be able to, to, you know, make it available under prescription. Like, there's no advantage to the consumer for doing that. No, no. So you know, so this is one of those things we got to speak up on, because I feel very strongly I mean, I've prescribed it for decades and never seen a problem that's been there. Then last but not least, is the vitamin Q quercetin. Quercetin is something that I have prescribed and my practice for almost 40 years. I heard about it from in the naturopathic textbooks. What is it is a yellowish pigment. It's in most any fruits and vegetables, right? So if you're eating, you know, salad every day, you're getting a lot of quercetin it, it's in there, because it actually protects the fruits and vegetables from the damaging effects of sunlight, and also from being attacked by insects. So this is part of a group of compounds that plants make to protect themselves. So, you know, plants don't have an immune system, they don't have any other way to fight back. So they make all kinds of things like this that we call secondary metabolites. Well, I don't know how they discovered this, but years ago was found that and high doses, quercetin could stabilize immune cells and prevent production of histamine so that they're not is not an anti histamine, but it's a histamine preventive agent. It's similar to a drug called cromolyn. And so that my initial reason for prescribing it years ago was for allergies. And it works quite well for that it doesn't work. You know, if a person's sneezing and they take quercetin it doesn't, it's not like taking Benadryl or something, you know, that knocks the sneeze out. But taken over regular basis helps prevent the sneezing. I've used it for that for years, but then it began to emerge that it has antiviral properties. So it's, it's been used to treat a whole range of viruses. And more recently, it's been used to treat people who are under the weather, shall we say? And I found that to be very powerful. Now. Here's one where I do want to mention that thorne has got a version of quercetin called quercetin phytosome.That is really unique. Thorne actually teamed up with this company in Italy called Indina who is the world's expert on phytsome. What is phytosome? Phyto means plant, the some means that it's a form of a of a kind of a lecithin, like structure that allows it to be absorbed. So person is not well absorbed. And when I prescribe it, and pass for allergies, I've had to use 3000 5000 milligrams a day. With the finest tome, you only need something like 250 to 500 once or twice a day. So we're talking about, you know, four caps a day, occasionally get people up to six caps a day, but for most people one cap twice a day is all they need as a preventive and then, you know, if they start to feel like they're under the weather, then they can bump that up.
Ed Jones 43:42 I love that and I will be honest, you know, I hear a tremendous amount of feedback because I've worked still six days a week and I'm in the trenches every single day and thorne's quercetin, I have observed over and over is more effective than any particular brand. And and, and nutrition W carries the very best brands available. And I personally have taken quercetin before and never really felt that I was feeling any significant change but i did when i did Thorne so that bound binding that to a carrier is is incredibly valuable and makes it so much more potent. And we need this during the times of being under the weather to of course prevent some of the storms of the immune system and the lung issues and and the fluid stuff. And so and I know you know many people just feel better being on it because they could be slightly allergic and not realize it and when you start blocking histamines which is a healthier way, then to try to eliminate them Benadryl eliminates them. Of course it didn't block them I'd far better served by blocking than trying to eliminate so yes you're so right about the brand Thorne on the course attend. I do myself take two capsules twice daily for prevention. But and that's pretty much some people just take one twice a day but under the weather I did take a little bit higher dosing of that is totally safe. I know early studies along ago I used to recommend it for prostatitis for man. Yep. And a few other things.
Dr. Rountree 45:12 It's a really versatile nutrient in that regard. Yep. And there's a, I actually did a review article on that a number of years ago on the on the prostate issue. And I was kind of blown away. I thought, Well, why doesn't every urologist use this? Yeah, I get asked that question about every single thing that we're talking about here. Why? Why don't the pulmonologist, you know, put people on NAC? Well, I mean, you look at the literature, and I can't I, you know, I lecture to doctors, that's probably what I do for professionally. And I can't tell you how many times I've given a lecture and I said, Okay, I'm going to talk about NAC. And then I start going through the research and the research papers. And the stocks come up afterwards. And they say, I had no idea.
Ed Jones 46:09 And you are exactly right, because one is the system's broke, they don't, they're not going to get taught that. So if they don't have a seeking mind as you did, they probably won't know. Well, to just kind of wind things down here. Again, doing high dose short run totally safe, far more effective, you can't really use prevention doses, if you're under the weather, we're talking when we're talking, of course, with the right dosing and the right quality, the last things that I have on my list, and just if you make a small comment, I am a huge believer in moderately high dosing of melatonin at night for the same purpose of immune and also the zinc and the natto kinase. Those are the other three things that do you feel though, should be included also?
Dr. Rountree 46:52 Yeah, absolutely. So it's, you know, I, I tell people that ABC D N Q's z. So the zinc, but the important thing about zinc is you don't need super high doses. So I use the zinc picolinate. And which is very well absorbed, and I only use 30 milligrams a day. As a preventive therapy, if you start using too much sink, especially when you get up over red 90 milligrams or above it actually be can be immune suppressant. So you got to take just enough, right, it's the Goldilocks thing, right? Just enough zinc, and and for most people, 30 For some people 60. Now the higher dose I use for people with leaky gut, right, because there is evidence that zinc helps to tighten up those junctions in the cells that line that got and approved leaky gut syndrome. So I use it a lot for people whose immune systems are turning back on themselves and I'm worried about leaky gut playing a role in there. But an adequate amount of zinc is how I would put it to what an adequate amount of zinc you know, certainly do that. There was one other that you mentioned Nattokinase is a fascinating compound on eat. So now the kinase comes from natto which is this fermented soy product. You know, the Japanese like to serve it with a raw egg. Yeah, like on, you know, little ball arise with a raw egg yolk, and natto on top of that, and that is it is like taking a wad of chewing gum and putting it in the microwave. Oh, my gosh, is you know, it's a real test of whether you're, you can eat authentic Japanese food, because it's got a very interesting flavor. But in that Natto is this enzyme that breaks up clots, it's a clot buster. I don't tell people well, you got atrial fib, atrial fibrillation, and you've been told, you know, you need to be on a blood thinner, I'm not going to tell them take the nattokinase instead. But I do it for people that for some reason, can't take the blood thinners. You know, they're just some other reason why they can't take it. And natto kinase is you know, in a bad it's got some pretty good research on it for breaking up fibrin clots. It's extraordinarily safe. It doesn't make you hemorrhage. It doesn't make you bleed. It just keeps clots from being formed excessively. So yeah, love nattokinase think it's great stuff. And and I do recommend it for anybody that's at risk of blood clots. So you know another example you get on a plane and fly for several hours. If you're not getting up moving around, then you got to worry about getting a clot in your legs. Exactly. Oh, not a bad thing to take in your little travel kit.
Ed Jones 49:58 And I want to make a quick comment and I see you echo real quickly before we end this, the people, the women who are listening, is it Oh, no, it's soy. One is this not going to, in my opinion, you tell me you're going to affect any risk factor for breast cancer, because it's fermented soy is is done the way that nature intended it to be. Secondly, teeny amounts. I'm talking dust of Soy is in the capsule. So I want to make sure that people who have fear of that don't ignore it because of that reason. And secondly, I have learned just my own I think it's I think it's true. I'm not sure that we really need a double dose that one in the morning one night because it doesn't quite get the 24 hours covered with one pill. Is that correct?
Dr. Rountree 50:45 Yeah. It's got a short half life. Yeah. So and you're absolutely right, it does. Natto kinase doesn't have the isoflavones in it, which are the, quote phyto estrogens. So if you're worried about that, I don't think you need to be worried about it. But if you are worried about it, it's just not in there. It's like eating soy lecithin, like soy lecithin doesn't have the isoflavones ended either. It's the isoflavones and people have said, Oh, those are phyto estrogens, they mess up your hormone balance. Well, sometimes you and I should do a whole show on phyto estrogens. Because soy is not even at the top of the list for foods that have phyto estrogens. There's flax, for example. You know, and so people have zeroed in on toys at SU is bad. I think the GMO soy that's the problem. Exactly. We know that's the issue like but natural soy, especially eating things like tofu and 10 pe and Mizo. Soy sauce. I, I haven't really found an issue with that. And I've read that literature over and over again. So sometimes let's talk about phyto. estrogens.
Ed Jones 51:57 I would love to because it's been a controversial topic for decades. Yeah. And the thing is traditional schooled people, just traditional school people, they're alarming. Oh, these women for no good reason. And it's just sending them into a difficult place. Dr. Entry I cannot again, thank you so much. I really feel like sometimes people like you. And I kind of feel like myself are our explorers like in the old world when when people would go on a ship, and they would go to a piece of land that had never been no one had ever even stepped on. And they went and they just found new new evidence of potential of something. And I really feel that, you know, you're you're learning something that 99.9% of the other people who are educating on health simply don't know. And it doesn't matter that we are in the minority. We are game changers we are we are helping the trend, we are feeding people's knowledge that they are hungry for because you have credibility. You're not out there just to make a buck or do I mean, you're not getting paid nothing to talk to me for this hour, you're here because you care, because you're knowledgeable and you're wise. And you know, I always say for my podcast on many of them, I separate the world into two classes of people, learners and non learners. Because if you're a non learner in this foggy world of health, you're going to lose most likely just going to happen while you're the teacher. And you have taught very, very well today, and I just cannot thank you enough. And I know listeners feel the same way that you took your special time out an hour to sit here and talk to us about something that's life saving. We're not talking about how to make your hair grow thicker, we're talking about saving your life. So thank you so so much Dr. Roundtree.
Dr. Rountree 53:45 You bet it's been a great pleasure and I'm happy to do it any old time.
Ed Jones 53:49 And we will get back together on a another topic and I love the one in regard to to the soy and isoflavones all that we need to clear that just this very confusing conversation. So all the best you in Colorado and hopefully, like I said, I've fly small planes. I've flown to Colorado before and I look for the day, maybe the next couple of years. I go back out there and we can sit down and have dinner together.
Dr. Rountree 54:15 Yeah, or maybe we can hop over the Continental Divide together.
Ed Jones 54:19 That would be awesome. Yeah, you could really show me around. Well, all the best to you and all the best to the listeners of the holistic navigator, you now have a full fledged empowered program to help your own natural pharmacy and if you've listened to any of my 100 podcasts, you know I have the deepest belief and and trust in our own intuitive and design genetically Pharmacopoeia within but we have to know how to access it. We have to also know what we're doing this kind of weakening it, again is not all about nutrients. We need to think about you know our sleep or mental state or happiness factor. Are many other parts of this puzzle. But when you're just hit like a baseball bat with all I'm feeling so rotten and something is not happy within me, that's a pathogen. You now got a program you got the the common sense things and legally check with your doctor if you're being treated for medical conditions. Not everybody can do everything if you're on tons of meds or you have something else. We're certainly not pretending to say every person but majority can do it. But if you have a question, call your doctor. If they are completely clueless and completely biased against it. Find somebody else. They work. So yeah, they're working for you. There you go. I love that. I told him about that last night. All right, Dr. Rountree. All right, everybody listening. Thank you for taking your time for the holistic navigator. Till next time, stay fearless.
Brian Strickland 55:53 The information on this podcast and the topics discussed have not been evaluated by the FDA or anyone of the medical profession, and is not aimed to replace any advice you may receive from your medical practitioner. The holistic navigator assumes no responsibility or liability whatsoever on behalf of any purchaser or listener of these materials. The listing Navigator is not a doctor or does it claim to be please consult your physician before beginning any health regimen.