Vaccine Education with the NVIC
The topic of vaccines is riddled with controversy. Regardless of your stance, one thing that most people will agree upon is the need for access to information when it comes to the nutrients and medicine we put in our bodies. We value transparency, whether it’s a nutritional supplement or vaccines and believe education is a necessity to make the best decisions for our health.
This week we have the pleasure of sitting down with Barbara Loe Fisher. Shes’ the co-founder and president of NVIC, National Vaccine Information Center. Barbara is on a mission to inform the public about informed consent, the realities of vaccines, and educate anyone willing to listen. On this episode she shares a little of her own story, what drove her to start NVIC, and resources for parents to make the best decisions for their own health and their children’s health.
Some Points Discussed:
6:38 - What is NVIC and the effects of vaccine usage.
10:13 - Possible ties to mental heatlh crisis.
17:10 - Discussion on children’s mandatory vaccination.
23:50 - Information on NCIV and vaccine statistics.
28:15 - The science and laws behind vaccines.
Products + Resources:
CLICK HERE FOR THE FULL SHOW TRANSCRIPT
Barbara Loe Fisher 0:00
What we're up to with the latest COVID vaccine recommendation the 780 doses of 17 vaccines that children are supposed to get from the day of birth until age 18. When I came into this work, it was 23 doses of seven vaccines between two months, and six years old. So the experience that children are having in terms of the development of their immune system, and their brains, it's a very different experience for our children today.
Brian Strickland 0:36
Hello, folks, welcome back to the holistic navigator podcast, where we believe in the body's capacity for self healing, if it's given the proper nutrients and care it deserves. My name is Brian Strickland. I'm the producer of the show. And I'm joined in the studio today, as always, by your host, Mr. Ed Jones. On today's episode, we're speaking with Barbara Lou Fisher. She's the co founder and president of NBI seed, which is the National Vaccine Information Center. Today's episode is, as you probably guessed, going to be centered around the topic of vaccines, but not necessarily a hard stance for or against them. We value education, above all, and that's exactly what we're going to cover in today's episode, Barbara is going to share a little bit about her story, what prompted her to start in the IC, and what they do about educating families about vaccines. So, sit back, relax, we have a lot of ground to cover, as always, in this episode. And let's go ahead and get into this conversation with Barbara Lou Fisher, and Ed Jones.
Ed Jones 1:39
Thank you so much, Brian. And as always, you know, many times you hear me talk on the illicit navigator about the value of the guests coming up or how I'm excited about it, I will have to say that this one, she's probably the biggest hero I have. And I say that because of a 32 year history of dealing with this special woman who is so brave. And her name is Barbara Lou Fisher. And she's with a organization called NBRC. And she's going to tell you a little bit about that. But welcome to the holistic navigator, Barbara Lou Fisher.
Barbara Loe Fisher 2:16
Well, thank you so much. I'm very happy to be here to have this conversation with you. You know, it was 1982 when I joined with a parents of DPT vaccine injured children in the Washington DC area, and founded the nonprofit charity known today as the National Vaccine Information Center. And we then were committed to preventing vaccine injuries, industrial public education. And we added the also the mission of defending the ethical principle of informed consent to medical risk taking, which includes taking a risk with a pharmaceutical product like a vaccine. So it's been a fascinating journey for 40 years. And it's been particularly interesting in the last two years,
Ed Jones 3:00
there is no doubt that is very wise words for all of us, especially those who didn't bite into the traditional agenda and the politics that came with that. Of course, I think that we you know, always say and I've radio show and I do many other platforms, the pendulum has always throughout history when it swings too far. One way it will swing back the other. And I see that and I think we all are saying that, you know, truth is finally bubbling up. That is not an exact science. There's two sides to this conversation, not one despite what the media seems to say. But I, I want to tell you just a tiny bit about my history with you, and how much I valued you because you're actually you're a lone voice in the woods, there's no doubt back in the day when my daughter was born 1990 and being in the nutrition and really holistic industries since 1979, I was pretty well read about all the components of what produces health, what may injure health and, and part of the conversation even back in that 80s and 90s was still some concerns about knowing the right thing to do with vaccines, not saying that all vaccines are bad, but saying we need to be informed and you you created a lot of hardship in my life, which was a wonderful thing because I kept reading about the whole sale, whooping cough side effects back in about 1990 About 88 When my daughter when I was planning on having a child and it was horrendous. It was absolutely awful what was happening to these children with different shutter with different vaccines, but this particular one should have never been approved. It was causing massive damage. So I stood up and again like you a lone voice in the dark wilderness and said My daughter is not going to get this one. Did you know Ben and we're actually had a pediatrician who said you know what? If you don't want it, that's fine with me because it does have a lot of side effects and so We'd never gave my daughter, the host cell and never gave her even a newer one that came out that did have less side effects. But as we all know, if anyone's gone through this path, it is a horrendous battle with family members alone because of this kind of propaganda. And I'd say a little bit of brainwashing that all vaccines are safe. And I want to say, Barbara, that you have from day one said, we are not about an organization that's trying to say all vaccines are bad. You're trying to give informed information for people to make educated decisions. And you know, right before I sat down, I thought to myself, I remember in the 80s and 90s, and maybe 2000, we had this magazine, I think was Consumer Reports. And you if you're gonna buy a car, or a lot of things, appliances, washer and dryer, that was the go to you went to Consumer Reports to to get ratings on what's the best, which one is the most reliable on cars, which were the safest? And I was just thinking, what if the car manufacturers back then had all joined together and created a propaganda where no one could tell anyone else that a Ford Pinto hit from the rear end would blow up with gasoline and kill the family? How horrendously criminal is that yet? We have gotten into that exact situation right now. And so tell people a little bit a little bit more of what we need to go with this conversation. Because, you know, again, I don't want people to just click off because they're anti vaccine, or they're pro vaccine. We're neither one we're about education about vaccines. And that, did I say it right?
Barbara Loe Fisher 6:38
Yeah, you know, I don't Yes, he did. nbsc is a consumer advocacy organization. We do not make vaccine use recommendations we never have, we believe that everyone should have full information about the risks and complications of diseases and vaccines, and be able to make a voluntary decision without being punished by anyone for the decision that's made. So we stand squarely in the pro education pro informed consent arena. And as you were talking about people who you know, purchase cars, etc, doing more homework on on that purchase, versus a vaccination, or that's what came to mind when you were talking. You know, I remember in 2011, when the US Supreme Court removed all remaining liability from vaccine manufacturers for vaccine injuries and deaths, that in 2011, they said, basically, even if the company even had evidence, that company could have made a vaccine safer, you cannot sue that vaccine manufacturer. And yet, with a few days before, they had said that the better the car manufacturers were liable for faulty seatbelts. So you know, I found it very interesting. There's this sort of sacred cow status of vaccines. This idea that we must not criticize vaccines, they're going to save the world from all disease, and we're all going to live longer. And over the 40 years, I've been doing this work. As more and more vaccines have been added to the required schedule for children, actually a tripling tripling of the numbers of doses of vaccines that children get, were up to with the latest COVID vaccine recommendation, the 780 doses of 17 vaccines that children are supposed to get from the day of birth until age 80. And when I came into this work, it was 23 doses of seven vaccines between two months, and six years old. So the experience that children are having in terms of the development of their immune system, and their brains, it's a very different experience for our children today. And in the last four decades, as we have increased the numbers of vaccinations children get, I've seen this corresponding rise in chronic disease and disability to the point where, you know, we've got, you know, one of the six child developmentally delayed one and 40 for developing autism. I mean, you know, 2030 years ago, it was one in 2500. And before that would have been 10,000. So, you know, we have an emergency here in this country in it is not about infectious disease, it's about chronic disease and disability. And that's part of why we are seeing and as adults now young young adults, 45% of adults in this country are suffering with one or more chronic diseases. It's a reason why when COVID came in here, we had complications in that section, that sub population of people who are suffering with one or more chronic diseases. We have a sick population, and nobody from the public health infrastructure is giving us an explanation that makes any sense as to why we are also chronically ill and disabled. So good.
Ed Jones 9:56
So we'll set the word emergency you said a little bit earlier. I Absolutely agree with you, because it's like this has become the norm. And what gets me is you just said that no one's really questioning why we seem to be falling apart in this country with health.
Barbara Loe Fisher 10:13
That's right, I just read a report we actually just reported in the vaccine reaction daily, weekly journal newspaper that the NBC publishes. We have an article out today about the rise in suicide among attempted suicide among teen teens, especially females. But there has been this explosion of mental health disorders, particularly in the last few years that are associated with the social isolation, the lock downs, the lack of schooling, the they're separated from their friends. You know, the whole world has been turned upside down in the last few years with these COVID policies that include mandatory vaccination for certain people, such as healthcare workers. Just the Supreme Court just said that military personnel do not have the right to a religious exemption to vaccination, and they can be forced even against religious objections to be vaccinated with this COVID vaccine. It's, it's unprecedented. And I started public speaking in the early 90s. About this day, I didn't know what how the catalyst for it, but I would end my speeches saying that the day will come when you will not be able to function in society if you have not gotten every government recommended vaccine. And the reason that I said that was I was starting to sit at the table with vaccine stakeholders from the pharmaceutical industry, from government, from the medical community, and I realized that their long QT, their long game was that everyone was supposed to follow the orders of the public health officials and get whatever it is they say they have to take or put into their bodies to protect the public health. Well, we have seen that long game play out in the last two years, where people really didn't question the removal of civil liberties, including freedom of speech, the right to dissent, freedom of assembly, etc. They, the majority of people bought it hook line and sinker, and did not question that and I was I just It was like watching my worst nightmare come true. Because I actually thought my children and grandchildren would have to deal with that day that I was predicting. I did not think I would live to see it. And so watching it has been horrifying. Because I really, the one upside is that more people are aware now. I think more people are questioning, they're opening their minds up about the issue of vaccination. No vaccine is perfectly safe. No vaccine is safe for everyone because we're all different. We're different biologically, genetically epigenetically environmentally, no way is a one size fits all vaccine mandate, not going to throw some people under the bus. And when you're the one that the risks of vaccination turned out to be 100% of your child is the one you know you see things very differently. And that's what happened to me in 1911, my son in 1980, had a severe reaction to the DPT shot that fourth, DPT shot, this bright, healthy child, that precocious child, who then regressed physically mentally and emotionally in front of my eyes after suffering a convulsion collapse, shock and brain inflammation that I didn't understand what I was witnessing that day. And all of a sudden, I realized when I saw DPT vaccine related in the spring of 1982, which was a documentary that warned parents in America that the wholesale Pertussis vaccine and DPT is very toxic. I realized that everything that I had been told that came from a medical family nurses and doctors and dentists, I realized everything I've been told, was not entirely true about vaccination. And that's why I began this journey to find out the truth. And then as I found out the truth, I said, that we have to have freedom. We have to have the freedom to be able to get the information and be able to act on it without being punished for the decision we make. And that's basically been my life's work.
Ed Jones 14:37
Wow. And I think your whole purpose in coming to life. One of them had to be doing what you're doing because without the NVC, especially in my years of my daughter being young, there was no other place to go to there was a few books, but you know, really didn't have the internet and people. We didn't want to talk about it and you know, as Take on my radio show constantly about the COVID vaccine, I said, it's all about risk to benefit. And if something has a better benefit than risk, like, if you're older, you have two or more risk factors that can't be controlled, then it's probably wise that you potentially choose perhaps the shot at but if you don't, the risk is higher than the benefit. Why would you do it? And yet, and especially with children, we're the first time in history, we've actually been willing to sacrifice our young children for old people. And I say this every time I'm old, I'm 65, in the fourth quarter of my life, they don't need to sacrifice anything for me, I've lived my life, I want them to have a full functioning life. And the amount of you know, people who may be listening to this saying, well, it's just coincidence about these vaccines. It just happened. They had 105 Fever, the day after this, and whatever. And it just happened, their personality change. Hey, I've been on the side of this fence for 43 years listening to people who are common, normal, sensible people who had these reactions in their children. This is not BS. This is not made up. Yes, occasionally, people could put two and two together, it may not be valid. But over the big picture, this is the most scary thing, as you said that we can probably witness. And the fact is, who in the whole world would ever not discount the fact that there's dishonesty when there's no punishment. For one, there's huge profits for two, they don't have to ever have any. They don't have to go to court and defend themselves. They have a free permission slip to sell as many as they can, with as much limited research as they want, or lot, whatever. And there's no policing of this, that it is a brainwashed society in the upper echelons. But now it's like you said it was just amazing. The people who drank the Kool Aid on the lower levels. Again, not saying that there's not valid vaccines. And I remember you, I think you said this decades ago, something to the effect of sometimes it's one of the toughest decisions to decide between a risky disease and a risky vaccine. And I remember
Barbara Loe Fisher 17:10
that, that's right. I mean, I have to say, I had great respect for these viruses of bacteria, you know, I had, I've had to have been cough. It's not, it's not very pleasant disease. I've, I've had COVID, twice, I was left with afib with COVID. And that's just, you know, I understand there are complications with COVID, and with other infections. But if you when you talk about the children, and it's true that COVID has been much more serious for the elderly, for those over 60. In fact, 80% of the deaths from COVID in this country have been in those people over 65. And but it from the very beginning, this virus was not serious. For the vast majority of children, I mean, 99% plus children, it they seem to blow by it, their immune systems are functioning, that for the most part, the ones who do have complications, that children are in the same category as the elderly, with underlying chronic disease, like diabetes, with complications, respiratory problems, obesity, you know, things that compromise your health, whether it will no matter what your age is really, but that I mean, it's less than 1%. And far less than 1% of children have died from COVID. So to target a vaccine in for an infection that for children is either asymptomatic or mild for most children, doesn't make any sense. Now, a parent may choose to vaccinate their child because their child falls into a high risk category. But I do think the questions need to be asked about why. And I do predict they're going to try to mandate it for children to attend school, at least in the states that have been very, very pro mandatory vaccination. We MGIC my organization has something called the mbyc advocacy portal at fdic advocacy.org. And we work in the States, with state legislatures and with families to try to get laws passed that protect the right to informed consent to vaccination. And in the last two years, we've been working in the States to try to prevent COVID vaccine mandates and COVID passports and in 2021, no state legislature passed a mandatory COVID vaccination bill. A lot of people don't realize that Where did it happen? It happened at the local level with mayors or governors but it didn't happen in state legislatures. Vaccine laws are state laws. If you want to get active in your state, and to be kept up to date on vaccine related legislation moving in your state, become a free, it's a free, our portal is free, you can become a user of the MBSE abbacy portal and you get in your email box when legislation is moving that you can either support or oppose. And we'll keep you informed of that. And then you can, when you wait, come on user, you can click on and have direct contact with your own legislator. So it's kind of a neat way to be involved. And I always say we have to participate in our government in our in our, our democracy, our republic that has a representative government, if we don't do that, we're going to lose everything. And that that has certainly played out in the last few years.
Ed Jones 20:47
Absolutely. And and the fact that you have these, you can empower us in a level that's not done with any other organization, what is the website so people can know that?
Barbara Loe Fisher 20:59
Right, our flagship website is nvic.org. And you can get to the portal through fdic.org, which was one of the first websites on the internet we formed in 95, at the same time as the CDC, wow. And then you have n viic advocacy.org. That is if you can go directly there. You can sign up for the portal, or you can come in through mgic.org. And then we have the vaccine reaction.org, which is our weekly journal newspaper. And then we have metal alerts.org, which the metal alerts was created in 2003. We partnered with the metal alerts. Person who developed metal alerts in 2006. And that is a search engine that allows you to easily search the vaccine adverse event reporting system, which is a database that's maintained by the government for reports on vaccine injuries and deaths. And here's the real interesting statistic about COVID vaccine. Since 1990, when there's became operational, there have been over 2 million reports of vaccine adverse events for all vaccines. As of the end of February, the COVID vaccine has generated over 1.1 million adverse events, which means by far it over half of all the adverse events reported are due to COVID vaccine 24,000 deaths 16,000 of those are associated with a Pfizer mRNA vaccine that they're trying to get licensed for children as young as six months old. This is a I urge everyone to become educated about this virus in this vaccine. I just created a one hour tutorial on the COVID-19. That disease and the COVID-19 vaccine. It's on the homepage of mbyc.org. It has over 350 References attached to the written report. And so you can see where the information came from. And it gives you it's actually for mothers, because mothers are the ones who mostly take the children into the doctor's. So I created it for mothers so that they would have an idea of the conversation they needed to have with their doctors.
Ed Jones 23:25
How lucky we are that you were born that you followed your passion all these years. Without it. We don't know where we would be because you're really the only source. I want to ask you I know back in the 90s when I was going through raising my daughter used to publicize what we would call hot numbers. And there were vaccines that were potentially had more risk because of whatever reasons do you still do that?
Barbara Loe Fisher 23:50
Well, that what that was in the early 1990s, we were having to FOIA under Freedom of Information Act, the various data, the vaccine adverse event reporting data, because we were the organization that worked with Congress in 1986, on the National Childhood Vaccine Injury act, and we got safety provisions. And then their system was one of those safety provisions that we got in that Wiley. So right, so the fact that doctors and manufacturers that everyone would have to report to the system. Now, the Congress didn't put teeth in it. They didn't put any penalties in it for not reporting. So basically, less than 1% of all reactions are actually ever reported to the IRS. However, we took it upon ourselves to monitor the system. So we would FOIA the government for the raw data in the 90s. You know, let's face it, there wasn't a whole lot of sophisticated computer equipment that could decode this data and we found somebody to do it. So we were monitoring DPT vaccine at the time, the whole cell Pertussis vaccine, and we knew that the reference standard that was used for the to license that vaccine was very A wide and then allowed some lots of vaccine to have a lot of pertussis toxin in it. And endotoxin is called opacity reference standard. So what we were doing was trying to identify the Hot lots of DPT vaccine that were associated with a higher number of that of injuries and death reports. And that's what that was, we would create reports of hot lots, but that was very specific to DPT vaccine. And then, you know, we worked for 14 years to have a site or pertussis vaccine that causes fear reactions, although it still can brain injured children, it causes fewer cases of brain injury. And that was brought in in 1996 for the elephants, so we're not really doing hot laps anymore.
Ed Jones 25:47
Wow. How interesting because I remember taking that list into the pediatrician and getting the number. And I just was fortunate, we had an older lady that was very flexible with my conversation. Unlike today, probably because I know it's not the all the medical people's fault, their hands are tied, they were under peer pressure. They, they basically couldn't be out of business very quickly if they had the wrong conversations on this topic. And it's, again, we have to have people like you who can inform, and I do believe that we are going to have a long term challenges with people's autoimmune, I think it's going to skyrocket. We know that miscarriages and pregnancy issues and ovarian issues I've already skyrocketed based on this latest COVID vaccines. And, of course, good the people on the other side are saying but we've saved so many lives that it you know, sometimes it just that's the risk and benefit. Now, I don't think so. And I mean, again, if we could educate to the point of, okay, these people probably should do it, these people should not, in fact, on my radio show about every week I talk about the coward of the week, and that's a local coward. And that coward over the past four weeks has been a pharmacy who puts on their huge digital sign we now have COVID Vaccines for Children. That is cowardly to me. Because when you're putting those small children at risk on a vaccine that has not had long term research, not even approved, sticking in these chemicals in these young, young young kids for no good reason, because they're 99 point 9090 90 90% survivable if they get it, it's criminal. It's absolutely criminal. And people like you and I, we are bringing it up. But again, we're put under the we're silenced a lot because of the way that the agenda of social media and Google and all the things that happen are doing to us. But you know what we're finding our way we're finding ways to plant seeds, get the information out. And people who are whose eyes have cracked open, are hungry to learn. And that wasn't the case a year ago when we were in the panic stage. But they now COVID has been a blessing on so many levels. For those who who aren't suffering under the either COVID or the vaccine side effects. Because I see people questioning today more than they've ever questioned this conversation, I hope that you are saying that too. We are going to get to a better place for those who are educated.
Barbara Loe Fisher 28:15
We are and you know, we've been saying for 40 years, you have to do the science, the good science, you know, we're not all the same. And pharmaceutical products, like vaccines carry two risks, or risks that you're going to have a reaction that could end up in long term damage or death and a risk that it won't work. And we've seen, we have seen this play out with COVID vaccine. In fact, a lot of people don't know that the companies were directed to prevent at least 50% efficacy in their pre licensure or pre EUA clinical trials. efficacy against severe symptoms of COVID disease, they were not directed to prove that the vaccine prevents infection and transmission. But most people assumed because that's what we've been taught to assume that that seems to supposed to prevent infection and transmission. Now the CDC has redefined the definition of vaccines and vaccination. And so has Merriam Webster dictionary in 2021. To remove the concept of immunity from vaccines and vaccination, and change it to immune response against a disease. This is major, this is a huge, huge change. Because the majority of people in the world think that if you get vaccinated, you're not going to get infected and you're not going to transmit it to other people. And that indeed is the basis for mandatory vaccination laws. And the idea that if everybody gets vaccinated, herd immunity is going to be created. They're not factoring in naturally acquired immunity which I have huge natural immunity. Now I've been tested, I have T cell immunity, which is the strongest type of immunity, you can have to COVID. Now I, I was left with a complication, it's being managed. But but you know, again, risk, you have to look at your own personal risk, your age, your your health, you have to look at it for your child, you have to make the best decision you can based on information. But if you're only given half the information and saw that isn't accurate, then you can't really make a proper informed consent benefit risk decision. And this is why I say this issue is about truth and freedom. That's really what it's about, are we going to have the right to protect bodily integrity, are we going to have the human right to autonomy, which is the first human right, along with all the other civil liberties that had been attacked during the last two years in, in name of the greater good. These are philosophical, moral, and moral questions that our society has to grapple with. And it transcends vaccination. These are fundamental cultural values and beliefs that we need to figure out, rather than just living smartly.
Ed Jones 31:19
I love it. And I love it. And I'm very hopeful and optimistic that the politics of the next midterm and the one after that we'll reposition things to more common sense, you said, a word that many, many people keep quoting follow the science? Well, the problem with that quote is, you have to follow honest science and accurate science, not corrupt science that is being manipulated for profits or power. And anyone who I think would have any reasonable perception of life. If you see organizations like all the platforms of the social medias, that have created algorithms that keep us from reading it, didn't that big a red flag pop up that why are they preventing all of this so aggressively? If it's if it's not true? Well, let us decide, give us those facts give us both sides to the story and let us decide. But that's not happening. The public's being manipulated. And I'm sorry to say a lot of the public can't think for themselves as well as they should. And in the area of health. Because I deal in nutrition for 43 years, I'm talking serious levels with between practitioners and people with serious diseases who want to embrace functional medicine, or other types that are more natural. There is the way that they research today, you can even find stuff in that category like you used to, I was doing a radio show two months ago on about a month ago on talking about dT dt for the mosquitoes in the ticks, which is not a good chemical. But again, it's a risk it's benefit. If I'm out in the woods all day long, I'll probably take the risk of putting data on I don't want to get a tick bite. But we need to know for our children, that date is a little bit risky. So I go in and Google it to find risk of deet. Why couldn't find anything it was all about selling date, or how healthy date was and how great date is to prevent diseases while they are but then we needed their bigger picture. Well, that's just not happening. So we have to have other avenues which are evolving, that's gonna give us better avenues of accuracy and more information from people like yourself, and hopefully me and the holistic navigator, because people the awake people are searching it. Well, Barbara, this has been so informative, I want to say I want to encourage anyone listening, I have donated not a lot, but every single year, at least twice a year for my daughter's 32 yesterday, actually, for 32 years to your organization. And I don't count, I'm not a guy who does that a lot. But it's been so valuable to me, your organization and what you have done and that it will go on I'm sure it's set up to go on for longer than the both of us will be here. But it's just a blessing. And I cannot thank you enough. And I want to encourage people to go on your website, and I want them to think about donating if and even if just $50 Like you said, if we don't empower ourselves and our politicians in the right direction, where we're not doomed totally in life, but we're doomed with our freedoms. And it is a freaking scary thing. And, and I know I love this quote from Upton Sinclair Upton Sinclair, I know a little history and back in the early I think 20s The meat industry was about as despicable as any industry there ever, ever, ever was because people were dying because of the filthiness. And the employees were abused that worked in it all the way down the list. And both of these are kind of reminded me of our conversation. One is, you know, it's what he said was it is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on him not understanding it. That applies to this agenda too. And secondly, kind of reminds me of you and this was his other quote, I intend to do what little one person can do to awaken the public concerns. And in the meantime, I'm not afraid by your ministers. And that is you because you're not afraid you have stood up like a hero. And thank you so much.
Barbara Loe Fisher 35:17
And thank you for everything you've done the enlightened people about a better path to health. I mean, that's, that's the other big issue here is are we going to have the right to have choices about how we stay well, and maintain health. And those who are wed to the pharmaceutical industry don't want to have other ways to achieve health and maintain health and dependence on drugs and vaccines. So thank you, for all of the years that you have tried to enlighten the people and have enlightened the people. And thank you so much for your support of MBSE.
Ed Jones 35:50
Well, you hang around for another 20 or 3040, like I'm hoping to do and we'll go on keep this fight going. All right. That's right. That's right. All right, my friend. Thank you for joining me on the holistic navigator. And maybe we'll do another update in six months to Europe because things are going to change and I'm positive that it's going to lean toward the positive.
Barbara Loe Fisher 36:09
Delighted to come back.
Ed Jones 36:10
Thank you.
Brian Strickland 36:15
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