Anxiety and Depression: Fight Back with Natural Methods
Battling depression and anxiety can make us feel hopeless and lost. When in the middle of that kind of suffering we look for relief wherever it can be found. We often turn to pharmaceuticals, but sometimes that can come at a cost with a variety of adverse side effects. We believe in the body’s ability to heal itself and this includes mental and cognitive functions. Everyone deserves a chance at recovery.
MEET Meredith:
On this episode, Ed is joined by Meredith Mason, CNP and founder of BRIO Integrative Medicine in Chattanooga, TN once again. They discuss a variety of possible underlying causes including inflammation, nutrient deficiency, lack of sleep, and chronic stress. Listen in as they discuss practical lifestyle changes, make recommendations on supplements and dietary changes, and help guide you toward better health.
SOME POINTS WE DISCUSS:
If someone is on antidepressants and wants to get off, what are some ways that they can go off of them? (5:55)
What is the recommended dosage of omega-3? (11:31)
How does blood sugar play a role in depression? (15:11)
How does the thyroid function impact depression? (17:27)
What are some natural options to help with depression? (28:07)
SOME KEY TAKEAWAYS FROM THIS EPISODE:
Depression is really signaling that depression is the result of inflammation in the body. (6:11)
Heavy metal poisoning can often be a cause of depression. (12:00)
When you optimize your nutrition, you decrease inflammation systemically in your body over time, your body will do miraculous things and you will actually start to feel as if you're getting younger. (24:25)
PRODUCTS + RESOURCES:
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CLICK HERE FOR THE FULL SHOW TRANSCRIPT
Brian Strickland 00:44 Hello friends and welcome to another episode of the Holistic Navigator Podcast, where we believe that the body has the ability to heal itself. I'm Brian Strickland, the producer of the show, and today we're sitting down again with Meredith Mason. Meredith is a certified nurse practitioner and founder of Brio Integrative Medicine in Chattanooga, Tennessee. On today's episode, Ed Emeritus, spend some time addressing depression and anxiety. So without further delay, here's your host, Ed Jones.
Ed Jones 01:14 Thank you, Brian so much. You know, I look forward to this every week, because there's so many topics to discuss that is vastly needed in this country, because we're getting most of the time the very beautiful commercials on TV that are offering almost instinct cures for almost anything that ails us. But one of the most epidemic conditions of this country. And I think we've all most of us have either experienced it, or certainly no loved ones who have which is depression. Anxiety tends to be a cousin to that we're going to focus more on the depression probably on this podcast. Because I have someone with me, again, that we had a few weeks ago, Meredith Mason, who is the nurse practitioner with a lot of practice skill and a lifelong commitment to the same thing that I am. But before we get speaking on that, I've been depressed before I was about 30 years old. And it was due to, in my case, a lot of life stresses from having a young child and all the things that come with life, work, and all of those heavy things. And also, genetics, I think played a role in me most of my family members have had episodes, some of which have been lifelong with the darkness and the hole that we tend to feel like we're falling in, when we are chronically depressed. And I'm not speaking of a bad day where you're in a mood, or you're not motivated or whatever I'm talking about the contents, disabling that the only thing you can do is get up, put your feet on the floor and try to make them move in certain directions and maybe do your job because you have to have money to survive. My personal journey has been long on that. Because you know, family members can be tough on us. Don't you know, it's, you know, you, you really can't help it, you have a chemical imbalance. And we now have prescription drugs that can supply that, Oh, how I wish that were true. And I experimented with those. One of those drugs gave me a side effect at 31 years old that I still deal with at 61 years old. So 30 years. Thank you, Mr. anti-depressant, and may speak of that more, but I don't want to go into details right now. There's psychiatrists that I love, then we're gonna get talking with Meredith here. I don't I'm not trying to hog the show. But a psychiatrist I have so valued named Kelly Brogan. And she just had an article last week about the fact that depression is not a serotonin deficiency. That is a huge, huge myth. So with all of that, welcome, Meredith, back to The Holistic Navigator.
Meredith Mason 04:02 Thank you, Ed. I'm so excited to be here. And this is a topic that is near and dear to my heart. I've also suffered with depression in my past maybe due to different issues than you which kind of lends us information that it can be multifactorial, that there are a lot of things that can cause this, and I'm excited to talk about this today.
Ed Jones 04:23 Well, and it's, you know, you and I really banter back just perfectly because we both have life experiences. We don't just have knowledge that we've acquired through study or reading we have across the board. I mean, I've dealt with people for 40 plus years now and heard all the stories listen and help to try to educate to move into better places in one of those with depression. And I'm going to let you do more of the exacting details. But when someone asked me and says I'm very depressed and I don't want to be on antidepressants, you know it is multifactorial, we have to Look at sleep issues. Sleep issues issues, I know you'll agree with that. And then we start looking at, you know, different alternatives because here's the kind of the bullet point that Kelly Brogan makes the psychiatrist, the reason people do sometimes feel better on antidepressants is actually not because they supply themselves with serotonin is because there's a feedback loop that, that and the studies are starting to show that people who are depressed have too much serotonin in some cases. And what's happening is because when you take a drug that makes you make more, it's shutting the body's production down of its own serotonin. And so in this weird feedback loop, you actually are getting a different feeling because you're massively manipulating the chemicals of the brain. But that's like you taking insulin, and then we're going to shut down the pancreas, we know there's a dead end to that. And so I know you have a list of things we're going to talk about from how and what do we do when somebody says, I'm very depressed, either on antidepressants, or I want to get off, what kind of bullet points would you be discussing with this patient.
Meredith Mason 06:11 So a lot of the new research coming out about depression is really signaling that depression is the result of inflammation in the body. So that's a really profound thought, because we can start to consider Well, what are the sources of this inflammation, because there are multiple pathways in the body that can increase inflammation. And also the research is showing, incidentally, that C reactive protein, which is a common blood lab that we can order on people is a great indicator of someone's likelihood that they will be depressed. So if we can work on methods to decrease inflammation in the body, we can get somewhere with with that brain being inflamed as well. So when someone comes and I'm talking about depression, often, of course, look at the gut. That's my passion as well. So how is their gut functioning? Frequently, when people come in saying they're depressed, if I start to turn the conversation towards the digestion, there are issues there? They'll say, Oh, yes, I've been bloated or constipated or a myriad of issues there. So that definitely is a cause of depression that needs to be addressed. Also nutrient deficiencies. You know, basically, the point of leaky gut is that we have openings and our epithelium that are then allowing food and inappropriate things into our bloodstream, well, then that's the source of inflammation, right? We've got these antigens floating around in our systemic circulation, we're mounting an immune response, the immune system was what creates inflammation. So just identifying those allergies and removing them working on a gut healing protocols can be very helpful in treating depression. Also, people commonly have B vitamin deficiencies and that can create issues with depression, as well as omega three fatty acids. And omega three fatty acids are found in things like Coldwater fish like salmon, mackerel, wild caught, salmon, mackerel, and then the other one is anchovies, that's the other one. But also you can get omega threes and in hemp oil, hemp seeds, to some extent walnuts although and nuts in plant sources of omega threes and flax seeds as well, it has to undergo a conversion to the active form that we can utilize. So this all can be very helpful in treatment of depression for that reason.
Ed Jones 08:37 Well, I'm glad you mentioned all of that. And the above, I know that you know, the normal over the counter fish oil you have to be leery of because of the contaminants that can be found in those. You need to shop at stores that care about what they sell and have the right products on the shelf. However, two of the people that I have actually looked at blood work and I've looked at a lot of blood work of people with nutrient analysis. And the two people with the highest levels both of them actually didn't take any capsules, they did it from food, which is quite the challenge but it is possible on our website, the Holistic Navigator we have a link for a company called Vital Choice and they will send and you can order any of the fish that you want truly the kind that we desire, which is wild caught, not farm raised. I was out of town about four months ago and I happen to be on a tour and of the city and outside the city was a farm raised salmon. And so I thought how cool I want to go and see that I didn't get to to get super close. But let me just tell you something, it was unnerving to watch the massive face, swimming on top of all the other fish eating their feces, no room for any real growth because they're rich. You know they're trying to make every penny through profit. It is I will probably if I have a choice, I'll never eat farm raised again. Now there are farm races that are doing good jobs, but we don't know who's doing what and where when you buy the fish. So on Holistic Navigator, feel free to go and click on vital choice, you'll be amazed at how many things you can buy food wise, that can raise the omega three because half the brain is made of these fats, and it will short circuit basically without the right fats.
Meredith Mason 10:27 Absolutely. And I think you're I remember you telling me in the past that you met a lady that ate was it sardines or anchovies a high amount every single day and she had an ideal level of omega three fatty acids in her blood tests.
Ed Jones 10:40 Yes, she did. Now she was very particular the brand it is so much about choosing the right product. But yes, you're exactly right. And it can be done with food. Again, I really feel it's safer to do with capsules, because the good companies test every contaminant even farm raised, I mean, wild cod doesn't mean that is pure, it just is a good chance it will be but we still don't know if they swim in polluted waters is going to have pollution.
Meredith Mason 11:04 And also just from a personal experience that when I take my omega three fatty acid, that's one supplement I cannot live without every day I actually within about 15 or 20 minutes, I start smiling like the the effect is dramatic on my body, it's something I desperately need. And I'll find that my mood completely shifts, I am that sensitive to my omega three supplement. And I'm very reliant on that. So I can't speak highly enough about that.
Ed Jones 11:31 And I will say my personal recommendation for everyone is 2000 milligrams of EPA DHA. What that means is do not look at the front of the bottle many bottles say 1000 milligrams that could be the size of the oil capsule, not the ingredient. So turn the bottle around, look at EPA, which is the active ingredient DHA the other active ingredient Do you need whatever it takes to get 2000 milligrams a day. So keep that in mind when you look in purchase products.
Meredith Mason 12:00 So some other things to think about as potentially overlooked causes of depression would also include heavy metal poisoning. This is something that's getting a lot of attention right now I think different companies are focusing on increasing detoxification methods, a lot of research is actually coming out on this, particularly in the realm of detoxification utilizing infrared saunas and things. It's fascinating how much research is being done on this, but high levels of mercury and lead can cause symptoms of depression. So you know what's interesting in that with the patient is you can sometimes if you ask about their occupational history, what they used to do in the past, you'll find that they actually have had exposures in the past. So that's something where we can actually do some testing with heavy metals and see if that might be a cause. And then kind of look at either nutraceuticals like alpha lipoic acid milk, this whole some liver support. And then in combination with exercise, maybe infrared saunas, just start to push some of these metals, you know, effectively out of the body.
Ed Jones 13:01 I love that. And of course, I've seen it many times where no matter what happened, even when nutrient intervention, people would not get better. That's because heavy metals block their receptor site is almost like someone put superglue in your lock of your front door of your house, and you can't get the key in any longer wood. So you don't get to go to bed in your own safe place. Well, that's what bled arsenic, heavy metals, all of those do. For those people who are not as fortunate as, as we are around here to have someone like Meredith, who actually understands the concept and knows further how to test for it. There is a company called Thorne and also recommend the thorn test kit for heavy metals. It's not, you know, the king daddy of all testing, but it's the latest for at home testing. And it's about $300. You could probably go on thorne.com to order that.
Meredith Mason 13:55 Yes. So what's really interesting about this as well is that a piece that I saw recently is that even with hyperthermia and sweating, sweating is one of the most effective ways to actually decrease these heavy metals that can be done through exercise. Also, there's sweating. The ideal method is an infrared saunas, but I found out recently that in order to actually remove those metals that you have to use a soap like immediately after you sweat, so they recommend getting into a shower with like a Castile based soap, which I know people. There's a company out there that's been out forever, which is Dr. I think it's Bronner's soap. So they actually say that you can reabsorb those heavy metals back into the skin, if you don't immediately remove them with a shower and soap that that's just some incidental information that I came across recently.
Ed Jones 14:45 Yeah, but that's very important. I have done for infrared for 25 years, and the people who sit and really super sweat, and then don't take a shower, you're probably going to still be further ahead, but you're going to reabsorb what's on that skin back back into the body.
Meredith Mason 15:00 With that particular soap because you have to have a soap that will actually dilute and wash those off and not push because some soaps can push it back into the skin.
Ed Jones 15:10 Yeah, good point, good point.
Meredith Mason 15:11 Very fascinating information. So I'm kind of moving on here, we can also look at a blood sugar imbalance is a potential cause of depression. They have called. There's a correlate correlation between depression and also diabetes. And so this kind of points as well to not only the inflammatory processes inherent in diabetes, but also high blood sugar as a potential cause. The other thing to think about is high cortisol levels, which also go hand in hand with high with blood sugar monitoring as well. But I've learned in my research that the precursor to serotonin, which is triptofan can actually actually get pushed towards production of immune cells in a high cortisol state. Cortisol is the hormone produced by our adrenal glands that sit on top of our kidneys, that actually ramp up our body in times of stress or attack by antigens or infections. And so that trip to fan that we would normally use to produce our serotonin hormone is actually going towards immune cell function. So that really drives home the importance of finding out what our adrenal function is, are we producing way too much cortisol, and then finding methods to really calm down that system in our body with either stress reduction techniques, there's also helpful adaptogenic herbs that can be used to work on cortisol production as well.
Ed Jones 16:41 I love that. And of course, I know, you would totally agree that, you know, deep sleep is one of the methods to help regulate cortisol. And also, I have found that the few people some of which over exercise actually produces more cortisol. So you know, life is so much about a balance. And, you know, I've been accused of too much exercise, so for some periods of my life, but now I'm down to about 15 minutes, six days a week. And certainly, we're going to have a podcast on that next, probably within the next week on fitness and what I believe in to have seen. Now Thorne also has a test kit for this cortisol for those who again, are not fortunate like we are to have someone like Meredith around, and we hopefully will, may have that on our website soon. So you can actually order some of these tests, self testing kits. What is your take on and I know, I'm big on this, the thyroid and depression, mental state and health?
Meredith Mason 17:35 Thyroid is huge. And that's something actually tests for all the time with patients that present with kind of diffuse symptoms across the board. So I like to look at a full panel of not only thyroid stimulating hormone, but also t three t four free levels of those. And then I also look for antibodies against the thyroid as well, because really, it's hard to make a good assessment of the thyroid without getting all of that information. And that's actually pretty rare in practice out here. So thyroid is tremendously important. It controls so many other messages to other systems of the body that frequently Yes, when people come in or cold depressed, very often, it's an imbalance in thyroid. The other issues to consider with thyroid is that you have the appropriate micronutrients to convert inactive t four to the active form t three. So that would include looking at levels of zinc, selenium, and also making sure they have appropriate amounts of tyrosine, which is an amino acid. So kind of looking at their protein intake as well, that you want to make sure that they're converting to appropriate levels of the active t three. And that can be very helpful with with patients with that, that kind of full symptom of of low thyroid function.
Ed Jones 18:58 Absolutely. And I do tell people to the simple at home test is a morning temperature where you put a thermometer next to your bed before you write rise up because getting up activates the thyroid more. Say what your temperature is a couple mornings in the row 97.8 seems to be the marker. Now also, what about light? Because I know that I own one of the little light machines for in the deep, dark parts of winter. I will turn it on for an hour to two next to my, in my office next to me, what is that? What's the role of this bright light and why would someone want to do that, Meredith?
Meredith Mason 19:35 So seasonal affective disorder is something you know that's very common in this part of the world. Because we have these gray winters and lots of overcast skies. I see a lot of patients with this and they'll come in just complaining that they're a low energy, depression fatigue during the winter months, and the medical research actually supports the use of blue light incidentally and I have found it buys, actually by Philips, they make a small blue light, emitter, but it it it stimulates the pineal gland, which has, you know, lots of effects on brain function. And they've also shown in research that days that are Sunny, people are more apt to spend money start relationships, there's all this interesting research that's being done to just show how, how much we need the sun, we need exposure to sunlight for just normal brain function. So one way to augment of that is, of course, the light box that, that Ed talked about also blue light therapy, and I think that it's about 20 minutes a day for these devices. So first thing in the morning, so obviously, someone will need to carve out the time for that. But that can be very effective with with if you notice your depression symptoms are mostly seasonal.
Ed Jones 20:51 And, yeah, 20 minutes to an hour is what I seem to do best with, I try to shoot for an hour myself, I know there's a whole conversation about this blue light. And yes, the blue light has such an important purpose. But it seems to be sometimes I think we get too much blue light through the computers. Now that's a different type of we don't want that to happen. And I'm starting to experiment with wearing the blue blocking devices on top of my glasses. And I'm getting more convinced that if I'll do this past 2pm, maybe it's just a lucky run. But my sleep has improved to a point that I'm actually kind of shocked. But this UV thing that I'm clipping on, and I actually got it from eBay for practically nothing. And I did a test I have a little machine that has a blue light. And when I put it over this lens, it completely stops it. So it's not a gimmick. So what would be next on the list of person have they've taken enough omega threes now they're addressing sleep with all the methods we talked about earlier. They're really focused on gut function. And before we move on that there is a test that I did called viome. It isn't the gold standard, but it's it was very helpful to me is spelled viome.com. And it really gave me a good piece of information about what foods are, are healthy for my gut lining and which foods are actually unhealthy. And it shocked me, because some of the foods that I had been eating all my life, were supposedly not my friend. And then I had other foods that I thought were my enemy that actually I feel like aren't like peanuts. They're not the healthiest food on Earth, but I never ate them because I thought they really disagreed with me where they actually don't. And I've had better gut function in the past six months and I have in the past 26 years probably is it due to that? Well, that plus other things. But viome.com off of our website would be something valuable. I know you talked earlier about a test that people with Medicare can get. Tell us about that.
Meredith Mason 22:53 So there's a test called Genomind, it's called the genus Sep to say report, and it actually looks at the genetic markers for that are most related to mental functions. So those include markers for serotonin production, dopamine production. Also melatonin, which can, you know, is hugely impactful on thought patterns. But also sleep, of course, is looking how a person might respond to to opioids as well, there's also a marker for brain derived neurotrophic factor. So it's a wonderful test, that can be very effective to kind of pinpoint some of those genetic weaknesses a person might inherently have, and then looking at ways to try to treat a person's issues in light of those. So this can be very helpful, because then we can come in with nutraceuticals changes to the to the diet, that it might actually, you know, help increase some of the function of those weaknesses.
Ed Jones 23:57 Well, and that, you know, that would not be something that the person on their own could probably interpret to usable levels. But again, we're this whole country is embracing what you do, which is integrative functional medicine, you know, looking at the system that looking at the machine of the human body, and instead of putting a bandaid on it, let's figure out what imbalances are going on and address it from that angle. And it's very, very frustrating. But people are getting the word now, don't you agree?
Meredith Mason 24:25 Absolutely. Prevention is key. And in the case of depression, your body is telling you that you're not getting something that it needs. So you've got to figure out what that is, but it can be done. There's hope I've experienced it myself. When you optimize your nutrition, you decrease inflammation systemically in your body over time, your body will do miraculous things and you will actually start to feel as if you're getting younger. I know I mean that sounds crazy, but I feel better now I'm at 40s than I certainly did in my 20s. So I can't encourage people enough. Take advantage of this and information while you're in your 30s and 40s, now is the time to act so that you can have a really productive and enjoyable second half of your life.
Ed Jones 25:09 Yeah, that's perfect. You know, we have so much in the first half that we, you know, raising the family getting married, having the career earning the income. And so often, by the time that people get to the point of, they've kind of got that covered, and everything's going well, they start falling apart, then they become a slave to the medical system. And so often, their days and weeks and months are filled with going to the doctor's office and going to the drugstore and taking the pharmaceuticals. And, of course, spinning money many times on the pharmaceutical, they're not always free because of insurance. And then I mean, how many of us have seen the truth is, you know, person on two or three drugs, but then they have to start adding a fourth because of the side effect of one or two of the other ones. And then before you know it, they're on, you know, 10, no human way the body can be healthy at that level. And once you're on that many drugs, I do find it difficult to advise people on how to really embrace therapeutic nutritional intervention, because there's so many freakin interactions and a human can only take so many things. So you're so wise about saying, you know, it's almost like a retirement account, let's just not wait till it falls apart. Let's keep this machine running at optimal levels, so that the last two three decades is glorious as giving you the potential to be with the loved ones and the experiences and the stories and the travels, instead of running to the doctor's office.
Meredith Mason 26:36 And again, the concept of depression as symptom, as well, I like to think about it depression as a symptom instead of a disease.
Ed Jones 26:44 So, but again, I know, you know, this, the pressure to bear from practitioners and family members is huge. And my dad went through very bad depression in the last, I don't know, seven years of his life. And you know, he wasn't willing to embrace things on his own, but then other family members, because all the commercial say is just an imbalance in your brain. Well, there is imbalances, but the problem is addressing those imbalances through a machine gun type of forced feeding with a synthetic chemical. And you are right, the studies are so not clear that these things are really helping people, the placebo study the the fact that, that we don't even know that serotonin is at the root of depression. And you know, I'm not beating up on the field of, you know, psychology and psychiatric medicine. But there needs to be a real shift. And that shift is slowly coming into that field because I know of a couple really good psychiatrist who are balancing their therapeutic methods with what you talk about, which is functional medicine, but the issue is they need someone like you You can't learn this in a weekend seminar. This comes from years and years and years of practice and learning and guiding yourself. The other Well, let me tell you this, and my personal experiences, these are the four what I consider options if a person just like I'm not taking the drug and and saying the drug, never go completely off cold turkey work with someone who knows how to help you, you know, half dose it for a month or two, please, please no one. I mean, we're not giving any medical advice, you go to your doctor or your health care practitioner and let them help you do this. But the three or four things that I still have great faith in is Sam-E used at a dose of six to 800 milligrams. In fact, in Europe, if you had depression, you go to a doctor in Germany, or many of the progressive countries have on this level. The prescription 50% of the time is Sam-e at six to 800 milligrams. Secondly, St. John's wort St. John's wort does have some interactions with many drugs. So you have to be very cautious because of how it works the P 450 system, but it is a serotonin reuptake inhibitor. So it's keeping you from burning up the serotonin or it's alternating in some ways. So it seems to make people feel better. And then of course, tryptophane and five HTP, which is kind of a related compound. And you talked about that. You know, when somebody is super down and out, they have a hard time being the best evaluator of their own life. And that's why you need people who can kind of partner with you on this journey. Is there any sites that you recommend or at what if person wants to learn more and they're sitting in, you know, a little town somewhere, you know, 5000 miles from here, what would be a next step if they don't have any helpers?
Meredith Mason 29:42 And, you know, looking for providers that have gone through the Institute for functional medicines training, as they have learned all these concepts will be very helpful. Also, the American Academy of anti aging has a list of providers. There's a integrative association of practitioners as well and you It states, there are resources out there, you want to find them look for people that have gotten deeper training on this, that can really seek to find that root cause of why you're having depression.
Ed Jones 30:13 Yeah, there was a really great physician, and I don't have the book in front of me. But he had a wonderful email and actually showed two doors. And he, he said, You almost have to choose which door you're going to go through. And he explained, of course, the first door is those who are seeking more pharmaceutical intervention, you know, working with people who really are looking at the symptoms, looking at the surface, not not understanding the depth of, of delving into the full nutritional and physiological status of a patient in order to fix them, then the secondary door, of course, is what you and I really go through every morning. And, and we focus on which is the door of healing and the door of working with the body, not against it. And, you know, I mean, how many times have we heard, first do no harm. I mean, that's the oath that people take when they pursue a type of medicine, where, and that's, um, you know, I don't know how you can say that, and actually sleep at night, if you are a super prescriber, because you are doing harm. You know, if if I recommended someone to take 42 vitamins tomorrow, and they got an upset stomach, that's not doing harm that may be causing discomfort, you tell someone to take a very strong drug like me when I was 31 years old, and I've still suffering from that problem. Then there was harm done, you know, and, and it's all about risk and benefit. I constantly, every day goes by say this, when people ask me, what should I do? And I say, well, we have to look at risk and benefit. You know, what, if you have a terrible infection, and you're going to die, if you don't do something? Well, the risk of an antibiotic is low compared to dying. So then in that case, you choose the drug or surgery sometimes, I mean, I guess, I guess you would agree with that, wouldn't you, Meredith?
Meredith Mason 32:04 Absolutely. We have to make the best decisions, you know, for each situation and knowing what those are. That's where I think a really educated provider comes into play. But I will say that the science is compelling. Everything that I do is supported by science. And the science also shows that, for example, the SSRIs, that we're talking about this year tend to react to inhibitors like Prozac, and that they only have a 10% improvement in depression symptoms over placebo. So that is what the science shows. So providers have got to acknowledge the science and we have to bring medicine up to the level of science. So I am a science nerd, and geek at heart, I, you know, spend my weekends reading medical literature, and learning all of this to do the best for my patients requires a lot of sacrifice, in that I am spending most of my time reading and learning which I love to do. But we have to bring science to the people. And that is where I feel like drug companies have failed us and and people don't understand the information that's out there. So I encourage everyone, if possible, get involved in a local library Be it was affiliated with the university and do some research out there. But there's a lot of information that that supports these new paradigms, focusing more on nutrition, getting to the root cause of issues,
Ed Jones 33:39 such wise words, and you know, I love the fact that you are such a student of truth and student of studies. Now the one thing about that, it's almost like many conversations in religion or politics, you can accumulate your own storyline and your own argument and make it look pretty dang good. If all you do is look at that one category. And that has been the mainstream medicine has a bulk of substantiated evidence that, oh, if you're depressed, then you do this with this drug. But the thing is, you know, 15 years ago when I had these conversations with health professionals, many of them were so skeptical that they did say well, there's no science behind it. Well, you know what, there wasn't a whole lot but you are exactly right. If you are don't turn a blind eye to it. You can find the substantiated studies today that can talk about every ground us on everything you have spoke about today. I know there there's a psychiatrist named Dr. Daniel Carr LOD ca r la T. He said where there's a scientific vacuum. drug companies are more than happy to insert a marketing message in college science. As a result, psychiatry has become a proving ground for outrageous manipulations of science in the service of profit. And that is Gary, especially when you know, these are not short run drugs, at least with antibiotics, you do a 10 or 14 day thing. And you're, yeah, there's harm involved, but at least you're not there for the next 20 years doing this. And again, check with your health care professional. We're not saying get off in antidepressants. We're not saying manipulate it with this unless you know, or have faith in someone who is helping you on this journey. Well, thank you, Meredith, so much for all enlightening people the way you do, it's just, we're going to do this at least once a month with you and I, and, and I know people will be looking forward to that, or to it. Always. lately. Anyway, I've been always repeating this point that I really resonate with. I found it before I did a lecture about a month ago when I was doing a keto lecture. And I'm still don't know who wrote it, but it's that I don't divide the world into the weak or the strong, or the successes or the failures, or those who make it. For those who don't. I divide the world into this, the learners and the non learners. And that is it for this week's episode. I am Ed Jones. And remember, whenever a doctor cannot do good, he must be kept from doing harm. Thank you.
Brian Strickland 36:14 Thanks for listening to the holistic navigator podcast. For more information, previous episodes and other resources, visit theholisticnavigator.com